What could? Men having a say in a pregnancy? OK, so they "say" have an abortion.....how's that work for ya ????
Men have a say in pregnancy. They need to be involved in order for it to happen. And I'm willing to bet that 50% or so of abortions are caused by a men pressuring a woman into doing it. The fact that you don't care about that really kind of indicates that you don't care about women.
Emotional or not, fetuses are cut up. It's a bit hyperbolic to call it butchering, but out isn't inaccurate. If say you are ignoring the facts, because a fetus is an unborn baby, and depending on how far along the pregnancy is, the fetus has to be sliced up to be removed. Argue against the points that I made if you want. But if you tell me about my emotional state making me the point of this discussion it means you can't argue the facts they don't support your position. One of the reasons I can claim that I am pro-choice is that I have no problem with Roe v Wade. I'm pro-life because the only other thing besides life is death. And abortions shouldn't happen.
. Sure they can have a "say" in pregnancy....but it is ONLY the woman's decision. You "forgot" to address : ""OK, so they "say" have an abortion.....how's that work for ya ????"" Well, that's " men having a say " ...that is what you wanted.....AND I bet you can't prove in any way that 50% of abortions are forced on women...(I don't have to bet, they aren't) No, the fact is I care about facts and you don't...
I disagree. I'm still in the mindset that men coerce women into aborting their baby. Why would a woman kill her baby? Well that depends. If you are talking legally none, but if we are going to acknowledge the slightest truth about humanity than I'd say it's most likely the man's idea, the man pushing for it, it could even be the man black mailing her. Abortion benefits the potential father more than anybody else. Why is asking you to think the tiniest bit beyond legalities the end of the world? Do you acknowledge that women can be coerced into having sex or being in abusive relationships? If so why are they all the sudden completely unfaltering with regards to abortion? Unless you think all women that are in abusive relationships because they want to be, and all women that have been blackmailed for sex really weren't, than your position is inconsistent. No, it isn't something I can prove. It's something I suspect. It is a reasonable suspicion. That is incorrect, you don't care about facts. You aren't seeking them. Things that aren't proven can be, there is a process for that, it's called investigation. Investigation starts at curiosity not denial. You appear to be in denial.
Well, it really depends on what you care about. I couldn't care less about the politics of abortion. Laws are basic guidelines built to ensure that a minimum range of acceptable behavior is established to maintain a functional society. And on the subject of women who have abortions, i have no interest in punishing them legally or with my judgement. It is their burden to bear. That doesn't change the fact that I think it's wrong. I can think it's wrong but also none of my business ultimately. Now one thing i haven't encountered is a woman who feels sorrow for aborting her pregnancy. I'd like to think I'd greet that with compassion verses judgement. I guess my discussion is much more philosophical. As far as I'm concerned the law is settled.
I would not no. The baby is in her its her responsibility, she can't just shove it on me and threaten me that if I don't she is going to kill it. Most European countries allow abortion to a certain point like 12 weeks or 28 weeks. Most US states allow abortions up to 28 weeks while a few allow it beyond that point. Exceptions are made in the case of medical emergencies where the health of the mother is gravely threatened, and rape. European countries often require a waiting period of a few weeks and often mandatory counseling. I think we need to only allow abortion to about 20 weeks and require a several day waiting period and one counseling session before-hand.
. I'm sure some do...so? Some people coerce other people to do what they want....happens all the time...you can't stop it. But 50% of abortions are not caused by men forcing women to have abortions. Besides , YOU did say you wanted men to have a "say"... We aren't discussing killing babies, we're discussing abortion. What you can't seem to get straight is that : If men have a "say" as YOU PROPOSE then if they say "have an abortion" you would be all for it.....isn't that what you mean by "having a say" ? Or did you just mean "having a say" means he can force her to have the baby? WHAT did you mean? 50% of all women are NOT in abusive relationships. 50% of women who have abortions were not forced as YOU CLAIM. Only your views seem inconsistent.... Nothing reasonable about it at all.....and it's hardly the basis for an intelligent opinion. What am I denying? Want to explain exactly what you mean by "men should have a say " ??
Thank you for being Pro-CHOICE : """The baby is in her its her responsibility""" We allow abortion up to 23 weeks but most are performed at 8-12 weeks.... and no waiting time is necessary nor is counseling.....women DO know what abortion is...
Look Foxy, if all you want to do is argue that abortion should be the choice of the pregnant woman, than you need to find someone that disagrees with you to argue that. I never once changed my position to be that of the idea that abortion should be illegal. You're not going to trick me into it. My discussion on this is more philosophical. The law is what it is. I said in the beginning that I'm pro life and pro choice. I explained how i meant that. It stuck in your craw that it didn't match up to your definitions. You can call me whatever you want. I'm still pro life and pro choice. You will never talk me out of that. If you want to think I'm an idiot and need my permission, be my guest.
Then WHY did you post that you thought men should have a say? Or are you going to deny that? I think you thought men should have a say and force women to give birth and didn't think that it could work the other way...
Because you were talking about equality. Men can't kill their baby women can. That is more rights for women. I was the only person saying that it can go the other way. Also a woman being coerced by a man into abortion or birth is not the woman choosing.
. That is equality, women and men have the same right to not use their bodies to sustain the life of another. And , no, when you brought up "men should have a say", we were discussing men having a say in whether a woman gets and abortion or not. Yes, a woman being coerced into abortion is not having "choice".....exactly like women being coerced into having a kid...
No it isn't. Men cannot chose to "use their bodies to sustain the life of another." I also made the point that they could coerce women into abortion or birth. These two things are not contradictory. So if we fund killing babies, which I don't think we should, what other options or choices are we funding?
They most certainly can !!!! They can give blood , donate a body part or parts.... "Having a say" and "coercing" are two different things and you waffle back and forth about what you mean by "men having a say" Men CAN have a say, they can talk for hours and say and say and say.....and it's till up to the woman whether she aborts or not. You did not think when you said, "men should have a say" that they could also say," have an abortion" We don't fund killing babies and we don't fund abortions. The Hyde Act forbids taxes to be used for abortions.....so if money is all you're really worried about , don't worry.
"Having a say" and "coercing" are two different things and you waffle back and forth about what you mean by "men having a say"[/QUOTE]Donating a kidney and pregnancy are two different things. Ultimately they don't. And what do you mean about waffling? So they have no say. I don't need the psychic mind reading garbage. I know what i was thinking and when, you do not. So put away your terot cards and crystal ball miss cleo, i don't go for that garbage. Nope, I don't like killing babies.
Not in the context of "using one's body to sustain the life of another"..... Men can say all they want, but they have no right to SAY if a woman is going to have a kid or have an abortion. . Well it didn't appear you thought about how if men have a say it could go both ways... . Then don't.
that isn't the context. if men don't have a right that women do have that isn't equality. it may not have appeared that way to you because you were busy trying to pigeonhole me into a political position. oh I don't further I wish to bring attention to the coercion that goes on behind the scenes. And how utterly unfeeling and callous it is to kill babies in the womb.
You said, ""Donating a kidney and pregnancy are two different things."" I replied: ""Not in the context of "using one's body to sustain the life of another"....." Yes, that IS the context. I said, : ""Men can say all they want, but they have no right to SAY if a woman is going to have a kid or have an abortion."" WHERE in that statement is a man denied a right women have? Answer : NOwhere. Men have as much right to NOT sustain harm as any woman. No man is forced to use their body to sustain the life of another and neither is a woman...that is EQUAL. OK, I've asked you several times what you mean by "men should have a say"....since you never did explain what you meant I formed an opinion.... WHAT do you mean by "men should have a say" ?? . What ???? How utterly unfeeling and callous to want to force women to have kids they don't want....how utterly unfeeling and callous to want a kid brought into this world with a parent that didn't want it and/or can't afford it..
Than you moved the goal posts. The right to terminate the pregnancy. Only women have that right. Men have no right. So it isn't equality no man is allowed to terminate a pregnancy he doesn't want women are. That is unequal In the interest of equality it shouldn't be the woman's choice alone. Men have responsibility to children after they are born. But no right to choose. That is unequal . oh I don't [wish to kill babies]. I wish to bring attention to the coercion that goes on behind the scenes. I can't believe I've told you this three times now, but you still make this strawman. If you want to argue against people who want to make abortion illegal you need to go find them. I've already said this. In the future when you try to misrepresent my argument, I'm just going to delete your nonsense from the post as i respond
No, that would be you every time I post something you don't like. You said, ""Donating a kidney and pregnancy are two different things."" I replied: ""Not in the context of "using one's body to sustain the life of another"....." Yes, that IS the context. No, this is how it went: I said, : ""Men can say all they want, but they have no right to SAY if a woman is going to have a kid or have an abortion."" WHERE in that statement is a man denied a right women have? THAT is the statement you referred to . Yup, it is, talk to the manufacturer and complain.....Men don't have to be pregnant and give birth WAHHHHHHHH NOT fairRRRRRRR . It's her body ALONE that will gestate and give birth...so it's her choice....NO one else owns her body, NO one. See, now you're going off into "when they're born...another topic.......AND men MAY have a responsibility but they can, and do, walk away. So they DO have a choice. However, "choice " gets a littler more restricted once an actual child, a person, is present....as it should be. . If you have information that indicates women are being forced to abort then you should do the right thing and report it to the police... Warning, they will ask you for PROOF. UH, NO where in the following did I say you wanted to make abortion illegal...."""How utterly unfeeling and callous to want to force women to have kids they don't want....how utterly unfeeling and callous to want a kid brought into this world with a parent that didn't want it and/or can't afford it..""""" You should really try not inserting your words into other's posts... That's called cherry picking....it means you can't face what is written in a post... ...and it's YOU who is doing the misrepresenting as I have shown above... Now, could you explain how a man should have a say in abortion? You don't want me to "misrepresent " what you post but you still haven't answered that question.
