Reincarnation of Cain and Abel as Moses and Jethro?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Feb 10, 2021.

?

Do you personally take the idea of some variation of reincarnation seriously?

  1. No

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  2. Yes

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  3. Maybe????????

    3 vote(s)
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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is such an interesting idea that I thought that this is worth beginning a discussion on this.

    I have to admit... I really do like the idea of some variation of the reincarnation or Gilgul process to be used to cleanse our souls and spirits over multiple life time. The following whole article is especially well done and explains how this idea was taken very seriously by Prophet Joseph Smith according to two of his wives.


    MULTIPLE MORTAL PROBATIONS


     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here is a type of research on this topic that impressed me personally in a special way.


    3. Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to Wounds on Deceased Persons

    So how could this possibly relate to you and I?



    https://reluctant-messenger.com/eden_1.htm

    On one level if you have a large mole or birthmark on your right side somewhere........ and if The Book of Adam and Eve is accurate in what is said in chapter sixty nine..... then....... you are on the list of possible candidates to be the reincarnation of the Patriarch Adam?????????
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am convinced that there is a part of us that is far more ancient even than the time of our conception.

    Evidence indicating our pre-existence can be found from a number of different sources.... near death experience accounts is one of them.


    “And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?” -John 9:1-2




    https://www.near-death.com/science/research/pre-existence.html
    Pre-Existence and the Near-Death Experience

     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  4. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I read the cited Stevenson's cited book on birthmarks. It is disturbing. He takes a scientific approach and I think science has dropped the ball in not following up on his research. At one point I thought Stevenson's work may have been tainted by his childhood exposure to Theosophy but people who have tried to debunk him as a hoax have failed. On the other hand the value of Stevenson's research has been cheapened by the linking of his research to false claims based on past life regression hypnosis. A research methodology he did not use.
     
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  5. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what purposes it serves, if true; we should have more than enough to do in the present than worrying about what we did 1,245 years ago or whatever, and it seems it would defeat to whole point of being 'born again' or whatever you want to call it to dwell on what is already past, wouldn't it?
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My guess is that HUMILITY is a challenging positive characteristic to attain in MERELY ONE lifetime??????

    Now that is just a wild guess...... and I am certainly no expert on such matters at all??????




    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ng-my-lifetime-so-far.584234/#post-1072408437


    Observations during my lifetime so far...


    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/




     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  7. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I read an interesting take on modern times posited by a Hindu scholar to the effect that souls are recycled over and over, but that humanity's birth rates have outstripped the number of souls and that is why there are so many violent sociopath criminals running around, they have no souls.
     
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  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I totally agree with you and like you.... I do also find it disturbing that more scientists have not followed up on his research.

    I read a brilliant explanation as to why Christianity eventually gave up the belief in reincarnation that apparently was there in the first three centuries. I suspect that the scientists who wanted to do more research along the lines of what Dr. Ian Stevenson did actually ran into a somewhat similar type of wall.


    Why reincarnation was edited out of Christianity?





    www.ThomasTwin.com/



     
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  9. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    Find any quote that shows the Prophet Joseph Smith believed in reincarnation. All the readings over a 44 year period I've read says quite the opposite. He taught this is the life in which we test our faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We don't get a second chance.
     
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I personally believe that the testimony by two of his wives is correct.... and that
    Prophet Joseph Smith had came to believe in what Jewish scholars term The Gilgul Cycle.

    I am hopeful that this understanding will play a role in laying a foundation for cooperation between Latter day Saints with Jewish scholars perhaps through the Noahide Movement.

    https://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html

    Reincarnation and Jewish Tradition
    by Yaakov Astor

    "LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations"

    "Proposal for LDS Noahide Movement on Saturdays at many wards."
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To at least some degree that could be somewhat valid.....
    but another part of the formula has been given by former Satanist Evangelist John Ramirez who
    explains how practitioners of the occult....... who really know their stuff....... have been given an amazing
    level of influence in Hollywood...... and also in the written media.

    Even popular video games where Zombies are shot and blown up .... may have had spells cast on those video games......
    that are actually an invitation to some of the creatures to come into homes where that gave is being played......
    such as was met by former ATheist Howard Storm during the negative part of his brush with death.


    https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html


    Here is some more information on anther possibly important angle on this possibility.......




    Defeating Witchcraft | With guest Speaker Ex-Satanist John Ramirez


    I PERSONALLY RECOMMEND WALKING TO ALL FOUR WALLS OF YOUR HOUSE, AND EVEN INTO THE BASEMENT.... AND SIMPLY PRONOUNCE......"THE BLOOD OF YESHUA - JESUS ON THIS WALL"...... AS AN INVITATION TO THE ONE WHO I REGARD AS THE GREATEST TEACHER OF LOVE, LIGHT AND TRUTH.... THAT I HAVE FOUND IN MY SIXTY ONE YEARS! From my own experience.... you will feel a positive shift in the atmosphere of your home..... but then follow this up by doing research on all of this. The near death experience account of Christian Andreason is a good place for you to begin if you tend somewhat toward the political left.

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/gay/christian-andreason.html


    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

    I consider that reading his books that were available online was one of the best usages of time that I ever made in my life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  12. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Well-Known Member

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    To me this is just an attempt to redefine reincarnation. Reincarnation is not resurrection. To confuse the two is to confuse the purpose of the resurrection and the atonement of Jesus Christ. As far as Judaism teaches the resurrection is questionable. The only ones that may believe in the resurrection are those who also accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Jews for Jesus for instance. Joseph Smith taught about the souls going to Paradise or Hell in Spirit Prison and remaining until the Judgment Day. Then, being resurrected to bodies Celestial, Terrestrial or Telestial. Those who are valiant in their testimony of Jesus Christ and baptized by one with authority will go to the Celestial Kingdom. That leaves out most people unless their baptisms are performed vicariously by those with Authority in the Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just more distractions Dennis.
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like these distractions.......
    and for the record many Chassidic Jews understand that the concepts of resurrection PLUS REINCARNATION... .are in no way mutually exclusive but in a sense fit with each other perfectly........ as long as somebody goes into a cooperative rather than a competitive and exclusivistic understanding of their beliefs on spirituality.


    http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html

     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am reading an article now that I feel does fit with this topic as it plays out in most religious and belief systems.


    https://rationalityofaith.wordpress...-loki-and-jacob-esau-who-does-god-prefer/amp/

    The Parallel between Thor-Loki and Jacob-Esau; Who does God Prefer?

    The bias of the writer is nearly opposite to my own so looking at all of this from this other angle may be helpful.




    https://beforeitsnews.com/christian...esis-6-archaeologist-are-floored-2509902.html


    “Thor’s Hammer” Unearthed in Denmark Proves Biblical Account of Nephilim-Giants in Genesis 6- Archaeologist are Floored…
    Thursday, March 5, 2015 21:23
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Due to the teaching on Multiple Mortal Probations being a part of the history of the Latter day Saints community.......
    this gives the student body and faculty of Brigham Young University in Jerusalem a possible outreach to both Israel as well as the Islamic world that could alter the political situation of the Middle East..... and the whole world.......

    Prophet Joseph Smith reminds me of King David reincarnated in some ways......
    and perhaps of the Prophet Muhammad, (peace be upon him), in other ways........
    I got into this general idea a few years ago here.....


    I believe Abraham said "good son and good Prophet" to The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)



    The predictions of an Exodus of USA Jews up to Canada and then on to Israel would be a great topic to give common ground to many Israelis with the students and faculty at Brigham Young University campus in Jerusalem.

    Exodus USA




    One of the best explanations that I ever heard for Exodus USA is after the seventeen minute mark in this video.....






    Please notice the idea of when a pastor does an effective outreach to Isaac / Yitzhaq..... they are often given an outreach to ISHMAEL!!!!!

     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    One interesting speculation with reincarnation comes from the fact that something like 1/4 of all people that have ever lived are living now, So do we have souls that were not reincarnated for several hundreds or even thousands of generations that walk among us now?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, if you ever found your own religion I respectfully request that you consider me for the honor of being one of your priests.

    I am an actual ordained minister of the Universal Life Church
     
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is the belief of that one ? - what denomination...
     
  20. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Universal Life Church is Universal, All Diverse and Totally Syncretic. We welcome all paths to spirituality and believe that we are not human beings trying to be spiritual but spiritual beings trying to be human. We have but one commandment, Love. Love all beings and all things. Love the Universe of which we are all part. Love each other and love yourself. Love justice and freedom and joy and life and and love love itself above all.
     
  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Back in 1990 after being a member of the Worldwide Church of God since 1973, (ok, technically co-worker from '73 until 1979 and then a member after my baptism by Pastor Richard Wilding in 1979), I got really, really, really, really angry with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and I kind of picked a fight with Him?!

    I literally stuck my right hand up in the air and I quoted from Isaiah chapter forty five........ and if I remember correctly I said essentially...... "BABY BOY JESUS AWAY IN A MANGER....... I WANT TO TALK TO YOU.........!!!!!!

    You are obviously an off the scale intellect even beyond King Solomon so WHY WOULD YOU COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT IS STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    ...... "Why would Messiah the Passover Lamb settle for a plan that leads to "many called....... few chosen"..... "a broad way leading to destruction and many going in thereat..... .and a narrow way leading to life and few finding it"........ and then there is this hell or purgatory higher dimensional environment so bad that it might be a good idea to take an axe and chop off my right hand if by doing so I could avoid this nasty afterlife prison environment????????!!!!!"

    ...... I said more than that.... .and then I visualized walking past Messiah Yeshua - Jesus toward the Ancient of Days the Heavenly Father who I referred to as "The Old Guy".....(I think I got that idea from Will Smith when he talked about Tommy Lee Jones)... .... and I visualized making The Ancient of Days an offer..............
    toward the debt / guilt of Azazel..... whatever that was...... because at that time I wasn't entire sure but maybe Lucifer and Azazel might just be the same person..........?????

    Anyway...... my offer to The Ancient of Days was.......... I began with a question....... "Do you have any use for a volunteer Yom Kippur goat???"

    "If so.... then I want to submit my offer..... proposed investment of TIME..... wager.... bet....... toward the debt / guilt of Azazel as implied in Leviticus 16:10"..........
    (In 1990 I was thirty one.... and this took place not long after Yom Kippur that year because each year since the late 1970's I was asking more and more and more questions about the hidden meaning in Yom Kippur...... at that time I was working at forestry and I was in pretty good physical shape)........

    anyway..... I volunteered to go back into any point in time since Adam and Eve until then........
    and initiate entirely new time lines..... in which vastly more of the Ruach ha Kodesh / The Holy Spirit was poured out......
    and more and more and more and more of the relatively "lost" would be led to salvation.......... whatever that meant?????

    Mr. Aleksander Ulyanov .. .I have something of a challenge for you Sir.....
    how about you begin a company that you own at least fifty one percent of......
    and you call it perhaps ..... actually I better give you the name in a private message but..... I got the title from this visionary dream from 1973........
    that I have a method in mind of totally messing up the actual fulfillment of the vision..........
    through film production combined with special effects......
    and a budget that can pay off the national debt of Canada, the USA, Australia and Israel....... and that will just be for starters........

    I DENNIS TATE OWN THE DEBT / GUILT OF AZAZEL......
    it is mine...... and I am astonished that I am still alive in 2021.......
    because when I began this I doubted that I would be alive for much more than a decade.......

    I have reason to believe that Azazel is identifiable with Zeus who we can get some idea what he is like from the Darth Vader character in the Star Wars series......

    Azazel had given up all hope......
    until a really weird Danite, (according to the scholarship of Mr. Yair Davidiy)..... decided to put in an infinitely high proposed investment of TIME, wager, bet, offer toward his guilt and debt to The Ancient of Days......


    Now.... my theory is that there is a latter day Yom Kippur event... .combined with a Rosh ha Shanah event... .that will lead us into a modern Sukkot / Festival of Tabernacles........
    and the whole thing is win - win - win - win - win - win - win - win for all of us in comparison to the time line shown to near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley in 1975.......
    which I am guessing was of a time line that had already taken place.......

    The Worgl Austria Great Depression Experiment and a real estate boom in rural America?

    Warning... the following information is offensive..... but has off the scale Artistic Value that can be transformed into educational value, diplomatic value and... ECONOMIC VALUE far beyond merely one quadrillion USA petro dollars but that is a good number to start with...... since the global Derivatives markets in 2014 was seven hundred and ten trillion dollars........
    and the USA Derivatives markets back then was two hundred and ten trillion USA petro dollars.....

    and Mr. Jim Rickards was worried about a ONE HUNDRED TRILLION DOLLAR MELTDOWN in the world's Derivatives markets.....
    but there is a way around it......
    but I need to explain it from Israel.... not from Ottawa......




    1973 Prophecy - The Vision by David Wilkerson
    1,015,188 views
    May 5, 2011

     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You need to re-read Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A Heinlein. Pay particular attention to the passage where Michael Valentine Smith explains why he finds money to be such a wondrous thing.
     
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  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes......... money sets in motion really, really, really scary powers......
    that is for sure......
    Sixteen million Latter day Saints if they could cooperate with nine point three million Israelis could transform the world economy.......
    and cause an economic boom that would make the boom of 2019 appear anemic and pale in comparison.......
    but........ Latter day Saints and Israelis are merely human..... .and they would soon face astonishingly difficult temptations..... .as all the wealth they could have would make each of them a bit like Mr. Bill Gates........ who apparently has NOT handled all that wealth very well at all.......

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...it-against-bill-gates.591367/#post-1072884742



    Are you willing to face an Economic "Goliath" Sir?








    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/was-moses-moshe-a-brilliant-economist.428423/
    Was Moses - Moshe a brilliant economist?




    Ecclesiastes 10:19


    "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things. "

    Could it be possible for money to answer.......ALL modern world problems???????????!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Gates is a fairly nice guy who has become slightly warped by being richer than any human being should be, but that really applies to most multibillionaires.

    I believe in a modified dictum of Huey Long. No one needs to have more than a billion (million) dollars. You can have a Gulfstream jet. a mansion in the Hamptons and still tool around on the Cote'd'Azur in a Veyreon forever on that kind of money, It you want any more you're just making it all cost more for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  25. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are farmers in India and Africa who would not be likely to be able to imagine that he was ever a "fairly nice guy".... or he would not have driven them to commit suicide..........

    This may not be the best video to explain what I mean by the farmers of India and Africa..... that one may have been number twelve.....

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/KrTrvrrgPIjG/
    THE SEQUEL TO THE FALL OF THE CABAL - PART 13

    I'm listening to this one again... and it is informative.. but it does not seem to be the video that explains about the farmers....
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021

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