Reincarnation of Cain and Abel as Moses and Jethro?

DennisTate · Feb 10, 2021

This is such an interesting idea that I thought that this is worth beginning a discussion on this.

I have to admit... I really do like the idea of some variation of the reincarnation or Gilgul process to be used to cleanse our souls and spirits over multiple life time. The following whole article is especially well done and explains how this idea was taken very seriously by Prophet Joseph Smith according to two of his wives.

MULTIPLE MORTAL PROBATIONS

"Another Way
Yet there is a second way to look at this. It may very well be that the Kabbalists are referring to our desires being born over and over until they are cleansed and purified. In the Zohar there are stories of people that were wicked dying and becoming righteous as they are born again into the world. For example, the Zohar tells us that the soul of Cain is reborn as Jethro and Able as Moses. And, by their friendship, Cain is able to repent of his sins against Able. If the Torah and the scriptures are the story of us, then this would be our wicked desires being reborn in righteousness, not necessarily reincarnation." (David, First Elder)
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DennisTate · Feb 10, 2021

Here is a type of research on this topic that impressed me personally in a special way.

3. Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to Wounds on Deceased Persons

SOURCE: Dr. Ian Stevenson, Department of Psychiatric Medicine, University of Virginia, School of Medicine, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908

ABSTRACT: Almost nothing is known about why pigmented birthmarks (moles or nevi) occur in particular locations of the skin. The causes of most birth defects are also unknown. About 35% of children who claim to remember previous lives have birthmarks and/or birth defects that they (or adult informants) attribute to wounds on a person whose life the child remembers. The cases of 210 such children have been investigated. The birthmarks were usually areas of hairless, puckered skin; some were areas of little or no pigmentation (hypopigmented macules); others were areas of increased pigmentation (hyperpigmented nevi). The birth defects were nearly always of rare types. In cases in which a deceased person was identified the details of whose life unmistakably matched the child's statements, a close correspondence was nearly always found between the birthmarks and/or birth defects on the child and the wounds on the deceased person. In 43 of 49 cases in which a medical document (usually a postmortem report) was obtained, it confirmed the correspondence between wounds and birthmarks (or birth defects). There is little evidence that parents and other informants imposed a false identity on the child in order to explain the child's birthmark or birth defect. Some paranormal process seems required to account for at least some of the details of these cases, including the birthmarks and birth defects.
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So how could this possibly relate to you and I?

https://reluctant-messenger.com/eden_1.htm

Chapter 69
Twelfth apparition of Satan to Adam and Eve, while Adam was praying over the offering on the altar; when Satan beat him.

1 Then Satan, the hater of all good, envious of Adam and of his offering through which he found favor with God, hastened and took a sharp stone from among the sharp iron stones; appeared in the form of a man, and went and stood by Adam and Eve. 2 Adam was then offering on the altar, and had begun to pray, with his hands spread before God. 3 Then Satan hastened with the sharp iron stone he had with him, and with it pierced Adam on the right side, from which flowed blood and water, then Adam fell on the altar like a corpse. And Satan fled. 4 Then Eve came, and took Adam and placed him below the altar. And there she stayed, crying over him; while a stream of blood flowed from Adam's side over his offering. 5 But God looked at the death of Adam. He then sent His Word, and raised him up and said to him, "Fulfill your offering, for indeed, Adam, it is worth much, and there is no shortcoming in it." (The Book of Adam and Eve)
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On one level if you have a large mole or birthmark on your right side somewhere........ and if The Book of Adam and Eve is accurate in what is said in chapter sixty nine..... then....... you are on the list of possible candidates to be the reincarnation of the Patriarch Adam?????????

DennisTate · Feb 10, 2021

I am convinced that there is a part of us that is far more ancient even than the time of our conception.

Evidence indicating our pre-existence can be found from a number of different sources.... near death experience accounts is one of them.

“And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?” -John 9:1-2

https://www.near-death.com/science/research/pre-existence.html
Pre-Existence and the Near-Death Experience

It is not unusual for near-death experiencers returning from clinical death to report having received information concerning their pre-existence before they were conceived in the world. Some experiencers report of learning how they chose various aspects of their lives to be predestined before they were born. Some of the choices people have reported having chosen before birth include the selection of their birth parents, choosing their mission in life, and even choosing how they will die. This knowledge received by near-death experiencers of the past and future shows how some things in life are predestined while other things are not. It shows how free will and predestination both exist and work hand in hand. It means we choose our destiny in life before our birth into the world to live it. Because reincarnation is a concept found in many cultures and religions, the metaphor of life as a river which we chose before we were our birth, shows up in many of these cultures and religions. There are many aspects to a river which make it an excellent analogy to help us understand where we came from, where we're going, who we are, why we're here, and what life is all about. The following discussion will attempt to do just that.

1. Life is like a river returning to the sea
2. We chose our river and destiny before we were born
3. An NDE describing the River of Life
4. Traveling down the River of Life
5. Choose your river and destiny wisely
6. The River of Life according to Edgar Cayce
7. The River of Life includes suffering which serves a purpose
8. Would retaining the memory of our destiny be beneficial?
9. Why we chose to forget our destiny
10. Our higher purpose within the River of Life
11. The River of "God-realization"
12. Our life before birth into the River of Life
13. There are a multitude of rivers to choose from
14. We are all on a mission from God

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JET3534 · Feb 10, 2021

DennisTate said: ↑

Here is a type of research on this topic that impressed me personally in a special way.

3. Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to Wounds on Deceased Persons

So how could this possibly relate to you and I?

https://reluctant-messenger.com/eden_1.htm

On one level if you have a large mole or birthmark on your right side somewhere........ and if The Book of Adam and Eve is accurate in what is said in chapter sixty nine..... then....... you are on the list of possible candidates to be the reincarnation of the Patriarch Adam?????????
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I read the cited Stevenson's cited book on birthmarks. It is disturbing. He takes a scientific approach and I think science has dropped the ball in not following up on his research. At one point I thought Stevenson's work may have been tainted by his childhood exposure to Theosophy but people who have tried to debunk him as a hoax have failed. On the other hand the value of Stevenson's research has been cheapened by the linking of his research to false claims based on past life regression hypnosis. A research methodology he did not use.

Farnsworth · Feb 11, 2021

I don't know what purposes it serves, if true; we should have more than enough to do in the present than worrying about what we did 1,245 years ago or whatever, and it seems it would defeat to whole point of being 'born again' or whatever you want to call it to dwell on what is already past, wouldn't it?

DennisTate · Feb 11, 2021

Farnsworth said: ↑

I don't know what purposes it serves, if true; we should have more than enough to do in the present than worrying about what we did 1,245 years ago or whatever, and it seems it would defeat to whole point of being 'born again' or whatever you want to call it to dwell on what is already past, wouldn't it?
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My guess is that HUMILITY is a challenging positive characteristic to attain in MERELY ONE lifetime??????

Now that is just a wild guess...... and I am certainly no expert on such matters at all??????

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ng-my-lifetime-so-far.584234/#post-1072408437

Observations during my lifetime so far...

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

Chapter 5 - Questions and Answers,
"Reincarnation"

What I observed in the Realm went way beyond what I would have originally thought "reincarnation" would be. And with reincarnation, I am not exactly speaking about being born again and again on this planet or other places alone.

Re-incarnation (I learned) is about birthing new energy from our original energy. When we take on a new lifetime, this happens by us merging new energy (gifted to us by God) with bits and pieces of our 'older' energy mixed all together.
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I saw that I had been both wealthy and poor, man and woman, sick and well, royalty and common personand even victor or villain Yet, I fully understood that each life was vital and going on for a much needed purpose.

Every lifetime, I learned, is orchestrated by our guides and the Elders to flow perfectly with one anotherteaching us something important about life, the Self, the Self of others, our Creator and the potential that exists within the Super Universe that surrounds us all. For the first time I had a comforting sense of trust that no matter what happened to a person in life, only good could ultimately come from it, as down the road God eternally works all things to a good end." (Near death experiencer Christian Andreason, chapter five of his online book).
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Farnsworth · Feb 12, 2021

DennisTate said: ↑

My guess is that HUMILITY is a challenging positive characteristic to attain in MERELY ONE lifetime??????

Now that is just a wild guess...... and I am certainly no expert on such matters at all??????

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ng-my-lifetime-so-far.584234/#post-1072408437

Observations during my lifetime so far...

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/
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I read an interesting take on modern times posited by a Hindu scholar to the effect that souls are recycled over and over, but that humanity's birth rates have outstripped the number of souls and that is why there are so many violent sociopath criminals running around, they have no souls.

DennisTate · Feb 12, 2021

JET3534 said: ↑

I read the cited Stevenson's cited book on birthmarks. It is disturbing. He takes a scientific approach and I think science has dropped the ball in not following up on his research. At one point I thought Stevenson's work may have been tainted by his childhood exposure to Theosophy but people who have tried to debunk him as a hoax have failed. On the other hand the value of Stevenson's research has been cheapened by the linking of his research to false claims based on past life regression hypnosis. A research methodology he did not use.
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I totally agree with you and like you.... I do also find it disturbing that more scientists have not followed up on his research.

I read a brilliant explanation as to why Christianity eventually gave up the belief in reincarnation that apparently was there in the first three centuries. I suspect that the scientists who wanted to do more research along the lines of what Dr. Ian Stevenson did actually ran into a somewhat similar type of wall.

Why reincarnation was edited out of Christianity?

Bruce F. MacDonald: "Thank you ,Dennis. An awareness of reincarnation is very important. When I was channelling the book, "The Thomas Book: Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus," I was constantly made aware of the importance of reincarnation to Jesus and to the early Christians. There are very important lessons about reincarnation in The Thomas Book, and the way it was written depends on the reality of reincarnation. A modern direct descendent of Jesus' teachings about reincarnation can be found in the Coptic Church in Egypt, which claims it drew its original teachings from St. Mark, who received his teachings from Jesus. They assert that reincarnation was one of the central teachings of Jesus himself, but that it was wiped out of the wider church by some of the later Roman emperors because those rulers did not want to think that they might be born as lesser beings sometime in the future. The emperors, in their pride, did not want to believe Jesus' teaching that "you reap what you sow," and that they might have to face the consequences of their actions in a future life. They wanted to be in the position where they answered to no one for their actions, as when they were emperors, so insisted that the Bishops pass a law that they would go directly to heaven instead of being reincarnated to face the consequences of their often cruel actions.

The first century Jewish historian, Josephus, says that the Pharisees and the Essenes believed in reincarnation. Since Jesus spent much time with the Essenes in his early life, it is natural that he would preach reincarnation. When I was told by Kevin Ryerson, one of the foremost trance channels in the United States, that I was the reincarnation of Judas Thomas, the twin brother of Jesus, it was a great shock in a way, even though I had been told by Jesus, when I was channelling the Thomas gospel in the early 1980s, that I was the reincarnation of Judas Thomas, and that was why I could write the gospel which came from him. To have this confirmed by someone with the stature of Kevin made it seem more striking in the modern world. By the way, for those who wonder about Jesus having a twin brother, there was an early and wide spread belief in this twin brother of Jesus (also wiped out by some of the people in power in the early Roman church) as can be found in "The Acts of Thomas," "The Book of Thomas the Contender," "The Gospel of Thomas" and "The Song of the Pearl" (all available on the internet).

Reincarnation was replaced with a belief in hell, which was a later, non-Christian teaching which found its way into the early Christian church. According to Jesus' teachings about reincarnation, facing the consequences of our actions in future lives is how we are "rewarded or punished" for what we do, and so, as Barbro Karlen says, we make our own heaven or hell.. But none of it is "punishment," even though it might seem like it is. When we face challenges or suffering in our life, it is a way for us to learn the consequences of earlier action -- it is not punishment. And it is the best way to learn. If we have caused suffering for others in the past, we need to learn what that suffering feels like so that we can decide not to do that again. As Edgar Cayce, the famous American "Sleeping Prophet" from the early 20th century says, "We must experience in our own soul what we have brought into the lives of others." That way we learn that bringing love and compassion and joy and peace into the lives of others brings the same to us, and bringing hatred and fear and pain into the lives of others brings the same to us. When Jesus said, "Do unto others what you would want done to you," he is reflecting this idea, because what we do to others is what will be done to us.

Of course suffering is not always punishment. Sometimes we choose to face challenges in our lives in order to strengthen our faith or our compassion or our understanding in some way. And sometimes advanced souls choose to be incarnated as poor people or beggers or others low in the estimation of the world, in order for us to realize that our negative judgement of the "least of these our brothers and sisters," may be all wrong, because, as Jesus puts it, these may actually be Jesus or some other advanced soul incarnate to teach us about the nature of love and compassion. (If people want to read more about this they can go to

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www.ThomasTwin.com/

Cougarbear · Feb 12, 2021

DennisTate said: ↑

This is such an interesting idea that I thought that this is worth beginning a discussion on this.

I have to admit... I really do like the idea of some variation of the reincarnation or Gilgul process to be used to cleanse our souls and spirits over multiple life time. The following whole article is especially well done and explains how this idea was taken very seriously by Prophet Joseph Smith according to two of his wives.

MULTIPLE MORTAL PROBATIONS
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Find any quote that shows the Prophet Joseph Smith believed in reincarnation. All the readings over a 44 year period I've read says quite the opposite. He taught this is the life in which we test our faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We don't get a second chance.

DennisTate · Feb 13, 2021

Cougarbear said: ↑

Find any quote that shows the Prophet Joseph Smith believed in reincarnation. All the readings over a 44 year period I've read says quite the opposite. He taught this is the life in which we test our faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We don't get a second chance.
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I personally believe that the testimony by two of his wives is correct.... and that
Prophet Joseph Smith had came to believe in what Jewish scholars term The Gilgul Cycle.

I am hopeful that this understanding will play a role in laying a foundation for cooperation between Latter day Saints with Jewish scholars perhaps through the Noahide Movement.

https://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html

Reincarnation and Jewish Tradition
by Yaakov Astor

The Afterlife proper is called in the traditional sources olam habah, or the World to Come. However, the same term, "olam habah," is also used to refer to the renewed utopic world of the future -- the World of Resurrection, olam hat'chiah (as explained in the next paragraph). 5 The former is the place righteous souls go to after death -- and they have been going there since the first death. That place is also sometimes called the World of Souls. 6 It's a place where souls exist in a disembodied state, enjoying the pleasures of closeness to God. Thus, genuine near death experiences are presumably glimpses into the World of Souls, the place most people think of when the term Afterlife is mentioned.

The World of Resurrection, by contrast, "no eye has seen," the Talmud remarks.7 It's a world, according to most authorities, where the body and soul are reunited to live eternally in a truly perfected state. That world will only first come into being after the Messiah and will be initiated by an event known as the "Great Day of Judgment,"(Yom HaDin HaGadol)8 The World of Resurrection is thus the ultimate reward, a place where the body becomes eternal and spiritual, while the soul becomes even more so. 9

In comparison to a concept like the "World To Come," reincarnation is not, technically speaking, a true eschatology. Reincarnation is merely a vehicle toward attaining an eschatological end. It's the reentry of the soul into an entirely new body into the present world. Resurrection, by contrast, is the reunification of the soul with the former body (newly reconstituted) into the "World To Come," a world history has not witnessed yet.

10 The purpose of resurrection is to reward the body with eternity and the soul with higher perfection. Resurrection is thus a time of reward; reincarnation a time of repairing. Resurrection is a time of reaping; reincarnation a time of sowing.

The fact that reincarnation is part of Jewish tradition comes as a surprise to many people. 11 Nevertheless, it's mentioned in numerous places throughout the classical texts of Jewish mysticism, starting with the preeminent sourcebook of Kabbalah, the Zohar :12

As long as a person is unsuccessful in his purpose in this world, the Holy One, blessed be He, uproots him and replants him over and over again. (Zohar I 186b)

All souls are subject to reincarnation; and people do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He! They do not know that they are brought before the tribunal both before they enter into this world and after they leave it; they are ignorant of the many reincarnations and secret works which they have to undergo, and of the number of naked souls, and how many naked spirits roam about in the other world without being able to enter within the veil of the King's Palace. Men do not know how the souls revolve like a stone that is thrown from a sling. But the time is at hand when these mysteries will be disclosed. (Zohar II 99b)
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"LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations"

"Proposal for LDS Noahide Movement on Saturdays at many wards."

DennisTate · Feb 13, 2021

Farnsworth said: ↑

I read an interesting take on modern times posited by a Hindu scholar to the effect that souls are recycled over and over, but that humanity's birth rates have outstripped the number of souls and that is why there are so many violent sociopath criminals running around, they have no souls.
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To at least some degree that could be somewhat valid.....
but another part of the formula has been given by former Satanist Evangelist John Ramirez who
explains how practitioners of the occult....... who really know their stuff....... have been given an amazing
level of influence in Hollywood...... and also in the written media.

Even popular video games where Zombies are shot and blown up .... may have had spells cast on those video games......
that are actually an invitation to some of the creatures to come into homes where that gave is being played......
such as was met by former ATheist Howard Storm during the negative part of his brush with death.

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html

Before his near-death experience, Howard Storm at www.howardstorm.com was a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man by his own admission. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else. But then on June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm’s had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was since forever changed. His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented. His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience, he resigned as a professor and devoted his time attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister. Today, Howard Storm is presently happily married to his wife Marcia and was Pastor of the Covington United Church of Christ in Covington, Ohio. During his past time he has maintained his passion for painting but now, unlike in his past, he paints with a God state of mind which raises his paintings to a whole other level. On this website Pastor Storm shares a unique look at his paintings and the effect Jesus Christ has on his daily life and on his paintings. The following is the account of Pastor Howard Storm's near-death experience reprinted by permission.

Table of Contents

1. An Invitation to Hell from Strange Beings
2. A Rescue from Hell by Jesus Christ
3. The Life Review of Howard Storm
4. The Future of the U.S. and the World
5. Howard Storm Learns What Happens After Death
6. Howard Storm Learns He Must Return to Earth
7. Howard Storm Internet Links
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Here is some more information on anther possibly important angle on this possibility.......

Defeating Witchcraft | With guest Speaker Ex-Satanist John Ramirez

I PERSONALLY RECOMMEND WALKING TO ALL FOUR WALLS OF YOUR HOUSE, AND EVEN INTO THE BASEMENT.... AND SIMPLY PRONOUNCE......"THE BLOOD OF YESHUA - JESUS ON THIS WALL"...... AS AN INVITATION TO THE ONE WHO I REGARD AS THE GREATEST TEACHER OF LOVE, LIGHT AND TRUTH.... THAT I HAVE FOUND IN MY SIXTY ONE YEARS! From my own experience.... you will feel a positive shift in the atmosphere of your home..... but then follow this up by doing research on all of this. The near death experience account of Christian Andreason is a good place for you to begin if you tend somewhat toward the political left.

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/gay/christian-andreason.html

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

I consider that reading his books that were available online was one of the best usages of time that I ever made in my life.

Cougarbear · Feb 13, 2021

DennisTate said: ↑

I personally believe that the testimony by two of his wives is correct.... and that
Prophet Joseph Smith had came to believe in what Jewish scholars term The Gilgul Cycle.

I am hopeful that this understanding will play a role in laying a foundation for cooperation between Latter day Saints with Jewish scholars perhaps through the Noahide Movement.

https://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html

Reincarnation and Jewish Tradition
by Yaakov Astor

"LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations"

"Proposal for LDS Noahide Movement on Saturdays at many wards."
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To me this is just an attempt to redefine reincarnation. Reincarnation is not resurrection. To confuse the two is to confuse the purpose of the resurrection and the atonement of Jesus Christ. As far as Judaism teaches the resurrection is questionable. The only ones that may believe in the resurrection are those who also accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Jews for Jesus for instance. Joseph Smith taught about the souls going to Paradise or Hell in Spirit Prison and remaining until the Judgment Day. Then, being resurrected to bodies Celestial, Terrestrial or Telestial. Those who are valiant in their testimony of Jesus Christ and baptized by one with authority will go to the Celestial Kingdom. That leaves out most people unless their baptisms are performed vicariously by those with Authority in the Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just more distractions Dennis.

DennisTate · Feb 13, 2021

Cougarbear said: ↑

To me this is just an attempt to redefine reincarnation. Reincarnation is not resurrection. To confuse the two is to confuse the purpose of the resurrection and the atonement of Jesus Christ. As far as Judaism teaches the resurrection is questionable. The only ones that may believe in the resurrection are those who also accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Jews for Jesus for instance. Joseph Smith taught about the souls going to Paradise or Hell in Spirit Prison and remaining until the Judgment Day. Then, being resurrected to bodies Celestial, Terrestrial or Telestial. Those who are valiant in their testimony of Jesus Christ and baptized by one with authority will go to the Celestial Kingdom. That leaves out most people unless their baptisms are performed vicariously by those with Authority in the Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just more distractions Dennis.
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I like these distractions.......
and for the record many Chassidic Jews understand that the concepts of resurrection PLUS REINCARNATION... .are in no way mutually exclusive but in a sense fit with each other perfectly........ as long as somebody goes into a cooperative rather than a competitive and exclusivistic understanding of their beliefs on spirituality.

http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html

The Father said to me one evening in my time of meditation, “You wonder that people other than the Jews have the secrets of the Kingdom as well as you. As you have been instructed before, the secrets of the Kingdom have been given to many people, but to no one in their complete form, so that each, seeking in their own way, may gradually come closer to me, but no one group can say, ‘I have the secret and you are excluded.’ Indeed, any who say that, have already put themselves outside of the Kingdom, because the Kingdom comes by Love, and Love is a working together. Love is not exclusively for one group.”

“In the end of the Age, peoples from all parts of the earth will bring their knowledge together and will find the Inner Way to me by working together. So, read and know what has been given to others, that your knowledge may be complete and you may be able to come to Me, all working together in Love.” (near death experiencer Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D.)
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DennisTate · Feb 27, 2021

I am reading an article now that I feel does fit with this topic as it plays out in most religious and belief systems.

https://rationalityofaith.wordpress...-loki-and-jacob-esau-who-does-god-prefer/amp/

The Parallel between Thor-Loki and Jacob-Esau; Who does God Prefer?

The bias of the writer is nearly opposite to my own so looking at all of this from this other angle may be helpful.

https://beforeitsnews.com/christian...esis-6-archaeologist-are-floored-2509902.html

“Thor’s Hammer” Unearthed in Denmark Proves Biblical Account of Nephilim-Giants in Genesis 6- Archaeologist are Floored…
Thursday, March 5, 2015 21:23

DennisTate · Feb 27, 2021

Here is a lecture by the quite brilliant author of the article that I quote in post number one......
I do believe that many people all over the spirituality spectrum will find his words to be of encouragement and inspiration.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/800807/8...iUEb7wpU0ga9OfsDVH8wAs6dydnMp7V1bH-u-_fg7f5NY

Mormon Kabbalah
Book of Remembrance Chapter 4: Adam, Eve, and Lilith
FEBRUARY 24, 2021 DAVID FERRIMAN SEASON 2 EPISODE 10

DennisTate · Sep 7, 2021

Cougarbear said: ↑

Find any quote that shows the Prophet Joseph Smith believed in reincarnation. All the readings over a 44 year period I've read says quite the opposite. He taught this is the life in which we test our faith in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We don't get a second chance.
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Due to the teaching on Multiple Mortal Probations being a part of the history of the Latter day Saints community.......
this gives the student body and faculty of Brigham Young University in Jerusalem a possible outreach to both Israel as well as the Islamic world that could alter the political situation of the Middle East..... and the whole world.......

Prophet Joseph Smith reminds me of King David reincarnated in some ways......
and perhaps of the Prophet Muhammad, (peace be upon him), in other ways........
I got into this general idea a few years ago here.....

I believe Abraham said "good son and good Prophet" to The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

DennisTate said: ↑

If more Christian Mystics and even some Jewish Mystics will begin to discuss the theory that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was in many ways a Prophet Like Unto Moses as well as perhaps King David or Elijah or the Patriarch Abraham reincarnated........ then peace will soon break out in the Middle East!!!!!!!!!

https://near-death.com/islam/
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3. The Prophet Muhammad's Journey to Heaven

According to the Islamic legend called "Miraj," the Prophet Muhammad had an experience that is similar in many respects to a near-death experience. Muhammad is said to have ascended to heaven to visit the seven heavens [and, in some accounts, the fires of hell] in the company of the archangel Gabriel. In the Koran, Muhammad's enemies are quoted as saying that they would not believe him unless he ascends to heaven and brings down a book (Sura 17:92-95).

In Islamic legend, Muhammad is reported to have gone on a mysterious night journey into heaven. Islamic sources state this happened "in the spirit," his body remaining behind. In this legend, Muhammad is prepared for his meeting with God by the archangels Jibril and Mikail one evening while he is asleep in the Ka'bah, the sacred shrine of Mecca. They open up his body and purify his heart by removing all traces of error, doubt, idolatry, and paganism and by filling it with wisdom and belief. An animal by the name of Buraq, apparently horse-like and white, and with a human face, was provided for a ride from the mosque in Mecca to the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, from where he ascended, supposedly on a ladder of light to the seven heavens. In the first heaven Muhammad meets Adam; in the second, John the Baptist and Jesus; in the third, Joseph; in the fourth, Enoch; in the fifth, Aaron; in the sixth, Moses; and in the seventh, Abraham (who welcomed him as "Good son and good prophet").

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The predictions of an Exodus of USA Jews up to Canada and then on to Israel would be a great topic to give common ground to many Israelis with the students and faculty at Brigham Young University campus in Jerusalem.

Exodus USA

DennisTate said: ↑

Exactly.... and I have to admit that I don't really understand the why
G-d wants them to go north first..........
but I suspect it is to become more closely twisted together with "Ephrayim."

Jeremiah 16:14¶
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers."

Obviously...... the Exodus of Jews out of Russia......
has already significantly taken place but it seems that more..... much more...... is planned by G-d / HaShem / YHWH.

Some gifted people have been shown that G-d plans to take Jews.... who are now living in the USA......
up to Canada......
and then many of them move on to Israel.

An exceptionally interesting statements by Mr. David Herzog is that they will be assisted by First Nations peoples of Canada and the USA.

Click to expand...

One of the best explanations that I ever heard for Exodus USA is after the seventeen minute mark in this video.....

Please notice the idea of when a pastor does an effective outreach to Isaac / Yitzhaq..... they are often given an outreach to ISHMAEL!!!!!

Aleksander Ulyanov · Sep 7, 2021

One interesting speculation with reincarnation comes from the fact that something like 1/4 of all people that have ever lived are living now, So do we have souls that were not reincarnated for several hundreds or even thousands of generations that walk among us now?

Aleksander Ulyanov · Sep 7, 2021

Dennis, if you ever found your own religion I respectfully request that you consider me for the honor of being one of your priests.

I am an actual ordained minister of the Universal Life Church

Giftedone · Sep 7, 2021

Aleksander Ulyanov said: ↑

Dennis, if you ever found your own religion I respectfully request that you consider me for the honor of being one of your priests.

I am an actual ordained minister of the Universal Life Church
Click to expand...

What is the belief of that one ? - what denomination...

Aleksander Ulyanov · Sep 7, 2021

Giftedone said: ↑

What is the belief of that one ? - what denomination...
Click to expand...

Universal Life Church is Universal, All Diverse and Totally Syncretic. We welcome all paths to spirituality and believe that we are not human beings trying to be spiritual but spiritual beings trying to be human. We have but one commandment, Love. Love all beings and all things. Love the Universe of which we are all part. Love each other and love yourself. Love justice and freedom and joy and life and and love love itself above all.

DennisTate · Sep 7, 2021

Aleksander Ulyanov said: ↑

Dennis, if you ever found your own religion I respectfully request that you consider me for the honor of being one of your priests.

I am an actual ordained minister of the Universal Life Church
Click to expand...

Back in 1990 after being a member of the Worldwide Church of God since 1973, (ok, technically co-worker from '73 until 1979 and then a member after my baptism by Pastor Richard Wilding in 1979), I got really, really, really, really angry with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and I kind of picked a fight with Him?!

I literally stuck my right hand up in the air and I quoted from Isaiah chapter forty five........ and if I remember correctly I said essentially...... "BABY BOY JESUS AWAY IN A MANGER....... I WANT TO TALK TO YOU.........!!!!!!

You are obviously an off the scale intellect even beyond King Solomon so WHY WOULD YOU COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT IS STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

...... "Why would Messiah the Passover Lamb settle for a plan that leads to "many called....... few chosen"..... "a broad way leading to destruction and many going in thereat..... .and a narrow way leading to life and few finding it"........ and then there is this hell or purgatory higher dimensional environment so bad that it might be a good idea to take an axe and chop off my right hand if by doing so I could avoid this nasty afterlife prison environment????????!!!!!"

...... I said more than that.... .and then I visualized walking past Messiah Yeshua - Jesus toward the Ancient of Days the Heavenly Father who I referred to as "The Old Guy".....(I think I got that idea from Will Smith when he talked about Tommy Lee Jones)... .... and I visualized making The Ancient of Days an offer..............
toward the debt / guilt of Azazel..... whatever that was...... because at that time I wasn't entire sure but maybe Lucifer and Azazel might just be the same person..........?????

Anyway...... my offer to The Ancient of Days was.......... I began with a question....... "Do you have any use for a volunteer Yom Kippur goat???"

"If so.... then I want to submit my offer..... proposed investment of TIME..... wager.... bet....... toward the debt / guilt of Azazel as implied in Leviticus 16:10"..........
(In 1990 I was thirty one.... and this took place not long after Yom Kippur that year because each year since the late 1970's I was asking more and more and more questions about the hidden meaning in Yom Kippur...... at that time I was working at forestry and I was in pretty good physical shape)........

anyway..... I volunteered to go back into any point in time since Adam and Eve until then........
and initiate entirely new time lines..... in which vastly more of the Ruach ha Kodesh / The Holy Spirit was poured out......
and more and more and more and more of the relatively "lost" would be led to salvation.......... whatever that meant?????

Mr. Aleksander Ulyanov .. .I have something of a challenge for you Sir.....
how about you begin a company that you own at least fifty one percent of......
and you call it perhaps ..... actually I better give you the name in a private message but..... I got the title from this visionary dream from 1973........
that I have a method in mind of totally messing up the actual fulfillment of the vision..........
through film production combined with special effects......
and a budget that can pay off the national debt of Canada, the USA, Australia and Israel....... and that will just be for starters........

I DENNIS TATE OWN THE DEBT / GUILT OF AZAZEL......
it is mine...... and I am astonished that I am still alive in 2021.......
because when I began this I doubted that I would be alive for much more than a decade.......

I have reason to believe that Azazel is identifiable with Zeus who we can get some idea what he is like from the Darth Vader character in the Star Wars series......

Azazel had given up all hope......
until a really weird Danite, (according to the scholarship of Mr. Yair Davidiy)..... decided to put in an infinitely high proposed investment of TIME, wager, bet, offer toward his guilt and debt to The Ancient of Days......

Now.... my theory is that there is a latter day Yom Kippur event... .combined with a Rosh ha Shanah event... .that will lead us into a modern Sukkot / Festival of Tabernacles........
and the whole thing is win - win - win - win - win - win - win - win for all of us in comparison to the time line shown to near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley in 1975.......
which I am guessing was of a time line that had already taken place.......

The Worgl Austria Great Depression Experiment and a real estate boom in rural America?

DennisTate said: ↑

My belief is that we must turn local governments loose to do variations of the Worgl, Austria local money experiment again.

This can lead to a method of connecting people with their neighbours in each local area which can play a huge role in a boom in real estate prices in rural America and Canada.

Could a real estate boom plus better Fed policy pay off USA national debt?

I believe that the economic aspect of this COVID 19 crisis is so serious that we need to resort to drastic measures to prevent the USA and Canadian economies from falling into another 1929.

I personally think that the most logical organizations to inspire to do part of this are
1. local municipal governments
2. churches
3. charitable organizations that are already attempting to help the poor such as Food Banks

Large churches in democratic nations should print their own currencies.

http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=717
Click to expand...

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and

nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it

all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by

people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of

becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to

all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).
Click to expand...

Warning... the following information is offensive..... but has off the scale Artistic Value that can be transformed into educational value, diplomatic value and... ECONOMIC VALUE far beyond merely one quadrillion USA petro dollars but that is a good number to start with...... since the global Derivatives markets in 2014 was seven hundred and ten trillion dollars........
and the USA Derivatives markets back then was two hundred and ten trillion USA petro dollars.....

and Mr. Jim Rickards was worried about a ONE HUNDRED TRILLION DOLLAR MELTDOWN in the world's Derivatives markets.....
but there is a way around it......
but I need to explain it from Israel.... not from Ottawa......

1973 Prophecy - The Vision by David Wilkerson
1,015,188 views
May 5, 2011

Aleksander Ulyanov · Sep 7, 2021

You need to re-read Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A Heinlein. Pay particular attention to the passage where Michael Valentine Smith explains why he finds money to be such a wondrous thing.

DennisTate · Sep 7, 2021

Aleksander Ulyanov said: ↑

You need to re-read Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A Heinlein. Pay particular attention to the passage where Michael Valentine Smith explains why he finds money to be such a wondrous thing.
Click to expand...

Yes......... money sets in motion really, really, really scary powers......
that is for sure......
Sixteen million Latter day Saints if they could cooperate with nine point three million Israelis could transform the world economy.......
and cause an economic boom that would make the boom of 2019 appear anemic and pale in comparison.......
but........ Latter day Saints and Israelis are merely human..... .and they would soon face astonishingly difficult temptations..... .as all the wealth they could have would make each of them a bit like Mr. Bill Gates........ who apparently has NOT handled all that wealth very well at all.......

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...it-against-bill-gates.591367/#post-1072884742

DennisTate said: ↑

Bill Gates has an economic philosophy that is significantly "Malthusian."

https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/m...age-of-food-sources-population-explosion.html
Malthusian Catastrophe: Will We Fall Short Of Food Sources Due To Population Explosion?

His possibly rather sincere belief in this aspect of economic philosophy does not automatically excuse any and all actions by Bill Gates to force the world into obedience to what he feels is wise for the long term future of the segment of humanity that does not need to be............ "decreased."

Click to expand...

Are you willing to face an Economic "Goliath" Sir?

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/was-moses-moshe-a-brilliant-economist.428423/
Was Moses - Moshe a brilliant economist?

"And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Genesis 11)
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Ecclesiastes 10:19

"A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things. "

Could it be possible for money to answer.......ALL modern world problems???????????!

Aleksander Ulyanov · Sep 7, 2021

Gates is a fairly nice guy who has become slightly warped by being richer than any human being should be, but that really applies to most multibillionaires.

I believe in a modified dictum of Huey Long. No one needs to have more than a billion (million) dollars. You can have a Gulfstream jet. a mansion in the Hamptons and still tool around on the Cote'd'Azur in a Veyreon forever on that kind of money, It you want any more you're just making it all cost more for everyone.

DennisTate · Sep 7, 2021

Aleksander Ulyanov said: ↑

Gates is a fairly nice guy who has become slightly warped by being richer than any human being should be, but that really applies to most multibillionaires.

I believe in a modified dictum of Huey Long. No one needs to have more than a billion (million) dollars. You can have a Gulfstream jet. a mansion in the Hamptons and still tool around on the Cote'd'Azur in a Veyreon forever on that kind of money, It you want any more you're just making it all cost more for everyone.
Click to expand...

There are farmers in India and Africa who would not be likely to be able to imagine that he was ever a "fairly nice guy".... or he would not have driven them to commit suicide..........

This may not be the best video to explain what I mean by the farmers of India and Africa..... that one may have been number twelve.....

https://www.bitchute.com/video/KrTrvrrgPIjG/
THE SEQUEL TO THE FALL OF THE CABAL - PART 13

I'm listening to this one again... and it is informative.. but it does not seem to be the video that explains about the farmers....

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Do you personally take the idea of some variation of reincarnation seriously?

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Yes

Maybe????????

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