REVEALED: Israel’s IDF Used Passenger Airliners as Cover During Christmas Day Attack <MOD WARNING>

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Striped Horse, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Thank you.

    The most recent source I could find was from PressTV News but other sources report that while other countries are trying to alleviate the suffering in Syria, Israel continues to try to destabilize that war torn nation & perpetuate the misery endured by the long tormented Syrian people.

    It's long past time for a significant world power to protect Syrian sovereignty against relentless Israeli aggression.



    "Russia warns Israel against more Syria strikes"
    https://www.presstv.com/detail/2019...ning-israel-airstrikes-syria-damascus-airport
    EXCERPT "Moscow said it would not tolerate further airstrikes in the area as it is seeking to renovate the airport, the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper reported on Friday, citing Russian sources. The Russians said the air raids were prompting airlines that want to resume Syria operations to reconsider their decision."CONTINUED
     
  2. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    why?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    [/QUOTE]

    My dad is not claiming another nation committed an act of war and murder against the United States. If he did I would hold him to the same standard.

    And my dad was not a "war hero".
     
  4. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why? Given Syria's horrendous abuse of its citizenry in the past its "sovereignty" should be rescinded.
     
  5. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was born in 1967
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Have you read any contemporaneous first hand accounts of the attack? It was bad.. and it was deliberate.
     
    Grau likes this.
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    The fact that you even ask that question is as chilling as it is revealing.

    Why wouldn't the men, women & children of Syria deserve to rebuild their country & live in peace after a murderous & destructive Israeli, US & Saudi failed regime change.

    I know that you feel that "Greater Israel" extremists should be allowed to slaughter, steal and attack anyone they want with impunity but not everyone has an inflatable Netanyahu sex doll under their bed.

    I've been to Syria and enjoyed the kindness & generous hospitality of its people who, like most people in the world, simply want security, employment, a safe home, a stable life for their children & adequate food.

    While you & frothing, greedy, Zionist war mongers may subscribe to PNAC & the Oded Yinon Plan, those of us who prefer regional stability & a fair & even handed US Mid East policy do not.
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    You ask a lot of questions but refuse to answer them:

    I asked earlier, why are the USS Liberty survivors' accounts any less credible than the war stories told by your father who you claimed to have seen "heavy combat" as an Air Force Vet.?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  9. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have no doubt the Syrian people are hospitable and kind, but the problems in Syria were created by Assad.. You can't blame anyone else... and nothing has been solved.. Although Assad did rid himself of 6 million Sunni Syrians.

    The PNAC is in the past and NOBODY care about stupid Oded Yinon's map of how the ME should be.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I don't doubt that the Syrian leadership, especially Maher Assad, has been brutal in fighting the US, Israeli & Saudi backed ISIS, al Nusra etc in their failed attempt at regime change (aka "Civil War") but I don't feel that Bashir Assad is as ruthless as Western MSM has depicted him.
    Of course I could be wrong but B. Assad is an M.D. who had a practice in London before he was compelled to become Syria's leader.
    Additionally, I don't know many ruthless thugs with the nickname "Mr. Soft Heart"(1)

    Do you feel that in the very curious mind of John Bolton something like PNAC is in the past?

    Thanks,




    (1) "Why People In The West Still Believe The Official Lies About Syria"
    https://archive.li/MuvYU#selection-605.0-619.17
    EXCERPT "Assad is a democratically elected reformer, and hugely popular with Syrians, not a brutal dictator. Claims that he “kills his own people” were further debunked when the so-called “Caesar photos”evidence was proven to be a fraud.

    Many Syrians criticize Assad for not carpet bombing terrorist occupied areas (as US occupiers did in Fallujah, for example). Syrians sometimes refer to Assad as “Mr. Soft Heart”.CONTINUED

    (2) "WHERE’S THE EVIDENCE ASSAD USED SARIN GAS ON HIS PEOPLE?"
    http://www.newsweek.com/wheres-evidence-assad-used-sarin-gas-his-people-810123


    EXCERPT "Secretary of Defense James Mattis made it very clear recently that “aid groups and others” had provided the U.S. with evidence that was insufficient to conclude that President Bashar Assad had recently used the chemical weapon Sarin against Syrian civilians. In other words, the Pentagon does not believe what has been presented to it as evidence, chiefly because of the dubious provenance of the providers.CONTINUED
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ISIS declared war on KSA in early 2011.. and have carried out 2 dozen suicide bombings in Arabia.. You shouldn't believe that crap about KSA funding ISIS.. They are still reeling over helping fight the Soviets in Afghanistan and the blowback from that.

    Assad PROMISED reforms and carried out NONE.. and yes he is as ruthless and brutal as his father was... and yes he slaughtered thousands.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Are you seriously suggesting that the "people of Syria" are going to get that under the Assad regime.? I remember how his father blasted an entire city off the map (killing 40,000 people) for opposing him. And from what I've gathered this current rotten apple fell from the same spot on the tree.
     
    Margot2 likes this.
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Where did you get the idea my dad was in the Air Force? He served in the Army. And his accounts of his life and combat was an artillery noncom are consistent with everything I've read about those positions in the Korean War. Plus, I accompanied him to the Veterans hospital many times for treatment regarding his hearing loss caused during the war.

    Are you going to suggest all his doctors were "Zionist sympathizers" or something to that effect?
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    That still doesn't explain why his accounts are any more credible than the accounts of the USS Liberty crew since everything I've read confirms the testimony of the Liberty crew including the common sense fact that no one could have mistaken the clearly marked Liberty with fresh new American "Holiday" Flag (13' long) and 20' tall lettering after surveying it for hours.

    The USS Liberty crew still makes it the most highly decorated ship in US Naval history.

    The US Government doesn't award honors to people who are liars and by awarding those honors is tacit confirmation of their testimony.
    It's only because of the influence of the Israeli government, its agents & complicit MSM that there is any controversy & extensive cover-up of Israel's deliberate attack.
     
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The information in your own links does NOT say the "Holiday" flag was being flown by the U.S.S. Liberty "for hours".
     
  16. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Insults are sure signs of intellectual impotence.

    I asked for a link to the original article in the NY Sun. Not a link to a quote from an opinion piece in an opinion piece. I don't care one way or the other what AIPAC lobbied for. I do care for accuracy and proof.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Firstly, I'd like to apologize for my strong language, however you claimed to have searched for the quote and found "nada", implying that I made it up.

    The NY Sun does not appear to have a traditional "Archive" but rather a very limited Google Search.

    If you had simply searched the quote as you claimed to have done, you would have seen that it is cited by many sources including the following:

    "And the winner is ... the Israel lobby"
    https://www.sott.net/article/158160-And-the-winner-is-the-Israel-lobby
    EXCERPT "
    AIPAC and Iraq

    It has become relatively fashionable for some members of the Israeli lobby to deny any involvement in the build-up towards the war on Iraq. But few remember what AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr told the New York Sun in January 2003: "Quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq was one of AIPAC's successes over the past year."

    And in a New Yorker profile of Steven Rosen, AIPAC's policy director during the run-up to the war on Iraqi, it was stated that "AIPAC lobbied Congress in favor of the Iraqi war". CONTINUED


    So, in the spirit of "accuracy and truth", I will provide a precise address when using that quote in there future.

    Thanks
     
  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    What difference does it make? The Israelis already knew it was an American ship as early as 0603 and, later, got as close as 200' before attacking the ship

    "0603: Reconnaissance aircraft reports to Israeli naval headquarters that “GTR-5” is written on the ship, identifying it as an NSA intelligence vessel." (1)

    After the Israelis burned / shot down the traditional American flag (larger than the one in your avatar), the unmistakable, 13', "Holiday" flag was raised at 1424.
    Afterward, the Israeli torpedo boats launched the torpedo that hit the Liberty and machine-gunned the ship with AP projectiles for forty minutes with the 13' Holiday flag in plain view.

    "1435: Torpedo boats launch five German-made 19-inch torpedoes at Liberty. One torpedo strikes starboard directly into NSA area, accounting for 25 of the 34 men who would be killed. Torpedo boats then circle, machine-gunning the ship with armor-piercing projectiles for another 40 minutes." (1)

    Of course the Israelis in their torpedo boats recognized the 13' American flag & 20' tall ship lettering on a perfectly clear day.
    Their mission was to destroy the ship and leave no American survivors as witnesses.



    (1) The USS Liberty Timeline
    https://ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-ameu.html
     
  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The difference is

    1) You keep making subtle but distinct changes in your claims in order to make Israeli missing the flag seem more unbelievable.
    2) The large U.S. flag was no doubt flying. But it was flying in the midst of an attack where the ship it was flying from was burning with smoke billowing. Are you seriously suggesting that smoke from the fires wouldn't obscure the flag at all?

    Once again you state what the "mission" of the Israelis was despite absolutely no evidence to support that claim.

    Also note that "0603" in military time is roughly SEVEN HOURS BEFORE the Liberty was attacked. The Israelis have long freely admitted that the ship was identified back at that point. But some hours later its identifying marker on their board was removed as the information was considered out of date by then.
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    Re #1. That's because it is in no way believable that so many members of a sophisticated military power could repeatedly & closely recon the Liberty on a perfectly clear day for at least 5 hours (the USNI says 9 hours) without knowing it was an American ship but also knowing which American ship.

    It just doesn't get any more common sense than that especially when the multiple pilots involved are required to have excellent visibility.

    Also, if it were an accident, why was the ethical Israeli pilot who refused to participate arrested & those who committed war crimes (strafing the life rafts) honored as heroes & why is evidence of an "accident" (a partially destroyed life raft) proudly displayed in an Israeli Naval museum.(1)

    You keep forgetting that the Israel's knew the exact identity of the USS Liberty because they knew how to jam its radio frequencies and its jammed radio frequencies didn't change because someone mover markers on a board.

    Re #2 Yes, the smoke may have intermittently obstructed the flag but since the Israelis knew the Liberty's radio frequencies & attacking Israeli pilots repeatedly identified the ship as American & torpedo boat commanders continued to fire after the Liberty was, again, conclusively I.D.ed as American, no amount of smoke would have made a difference in their desire to sink the ship & kill the entire crew.:
    "Israel had conclusively identified the Liberty as much as 26 minutes before the fatal torpedo strike. "(2)

    As I've stated repeatedly, no other "Friendly Fire" incident had any of the characteristics of the Liberty massacre nor has there ever been a cover-up that went so far up the Chain of command.

    (1) "The Forgotten Sneak Attack"
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/09/the-forgotten-sneak-attack/

    EXCERPT "The life raft taken by the Israeli torpedo boat and the wheel of the torpedo boat that succeeded in hitting Liberty are on display at Israel’s National Maritime Museum in Haifa. In Israel, those who participated in the attack are celebrated as national heroes."CONTINUED


    (2) "The Spy Ship Left Out in the Cold"
    https://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2017-06/spy-ship-left-out-cold
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You've never offered any actual proof of those claims from independent or independently verifiable sources. How can you not understand that?

    And you won't me to list other mistakes made by the Israeli Defense Force in or around that time? Of course you'll probably denounce them as "proof" of Israel being a murderous nation of borderline terrorists.
     
  22. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    I'm afraid that your interpretation of "...independent or independently verifiable sources. " only includes pro Israel MSM sources with C.A.M.E.R.A.'s imprimatur.

    I've presented plenty of credible sources confirming the Liberty crew's testimony however, you've simply chosen to ignore anything but those few media sources who remain complicit in the cover-up & dismiss all Liberty crew members as "delusional" as if aliens attacked the USS Liberty.

    I've never seen any mass shooting, and that's what it was, in which so little credibility was given by so few people to the 200+ eyewitness reports who all report the same facts.

    Perhaps if you'd served in the US Military, you'd understand the extent to which the US Government buries "inconvenient" information. If you'd served, you may have a better understanding of covert ops & may not even not have such contempt for America's most slandered, abused & betrayed US Veterans.

    It's only the Liberty crew's testimony that you so casually dismiss but I'm sure you'd never question the word of other mass shooting witnesses like the ones at Parkland, Las Vegas, Columbine etc out of fear of being labeled a "conspiracy theorist".

    Yes, I'd love for you to list any equivalent "Friendly Fire" incident involving any military that included 5 - 9 hours of recon on a perfectly clear and lasted over a hour in which well over 800 "Friendly Fire" rounds were fired.
     
  23. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I've read your links. None of them have claimed and proven that "200+ eyewitnesses" (survivors of the Liberty attack I assume) all "report the same facts".

    The best hard number from any of your links says "more than two dozen interviewed".

    In case you are unaware "over 24" and "over 200" are NOT the same thing.
     
  24. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I thought that you were going to provide a list of the numerous "Friendly Fire" incidents that were equivalent to the attack on the Liberty.
     
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You would never accept them. For one you continue to deliberately mischaracterize the attack on the Liberty. Claiming the ship was observed and identified for "hours" despite the fact that the planes that attacked the Liberty were NOT the ones that observed it earlier.
     

Share This Page