Russia admits defeat on its 'stealth' F-35 killer by canceling mass production of the Su-57 fighter

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by US Conservative, Jul 13, 2018 at 12:14 PM.

  1. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
    Russia's Su-57 fighter jet. Only 12 have been ordered, and no more orders are coming.
    Dmitry Terekhov/Flickr


    • Russia announced earlier this month that the Su-57, its proposed entry into the world of fifth-generation stealth fighters, would not see mass production.
    • The jet had some promising capabilities in combat, but design and production difficulties made it a challenging project with limited export potential.
    • This move represents a failure of Russia to manage its huge defense budget and breadth of projects and to find buyers for its version of a jet meant to take on US stealth fighters.
    Russia announced earlier this month that the Su-57, its proposed entry into the world of fifth-generation stealth-fighter aircraft, would not see mass production.

    "The plane has proven to be very good, including in Syria, where it confirmed its performance and combat capabilities," Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Russian TV on July 2, as reported by The Diplomat.

    But despite Russia's nonstop praise for the plane and dubious claims about its abilities, Borisov said, per The Diplomat: "The Su-57 is considered to be one of the best aircrafts produced in the world. Consequently, it does not make sense to speed up work on mass-producing the fifth-generation aircraft."

    Justin Bronk, a combat-aviation expert at the Royal United Services Institute, told Business Insider that Borisov's comments "could be charitably described as an unreasonably optimistic reason why they stopped production.

    Basically, Borisov said the plane is so much better than everything out there that Russia doesn't need to build it — a claim Bronk finds unlikely.

    Instead, Russia will stick to what it's good at, with upgraded fourth-generation aircraft in service instead of the Su-57, which was originally meant to replace the older fighters.

    The Su-57, a plane designed to function as a killer of US F-35 and F-22 stealth jets with an innovative array of radars, saw a brief period of combat over Syria, but the deployment lasted only days and didn't pit the jet against any threats befitting a world-class fighter.

    Initially proposed as a joint project with India, the Su-57 hit trouble when neither side could agree on how to split the production and technological development. After 11 years in the program, India withdrew, leaving Russia to go it alone with a weak economy.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-admits-defeat-su-57-not-going-into-mass-production-2018-7

    Lolski.

    I wonder how much Russia has spent to get figure this out?
     
  2. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    I’m pretty sure the Russians feel the real “F-35 Killer” is the S-500.
     
  3. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those look pricey. Kind of like the SU-57.

    Russia has lots of money, right?

    Or do they feel like they have lots of money?

    Edit-

    Cost of SU57 program-an estimated 10 billion. Unit cost 100,000,000.

    Russian GDP 1.2 trillion
    US GDP 18.5 trillion.
    Russian GDP is 5 percent of the US.

    Cant locate the cost of the S-500. But in a few years Russia hopes to have 5.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018 at 12:47 PM
  4. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    The S-500 and S-400 share enough commonality that they’ll start upgrading the S-400’s when they can and the newest versions of the S-400’s already make stealth questionable.
     
  5. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, Russia just spent 10 billion on the su57.

    I wonder how many more s-500 systems that would pay for.

    Perhaps more than 5?
     
  6. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    How many billion did we spend on the Comanche? Or on the FCS? Or the EFV?
     
  7. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Im sure the numbers are out there.

    Of course, we have mass produced 2 5th gen aircraft.

    And have the infrastructure and economy to sustain such things.
     
  8. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    And we need them. Our aircraft are expected to operate in highly contested airspace filled with advanced modern SAMs.

    What such integrated air defense network would Russian aircraft have to face?
     
  9. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apparently they don't have the aircraft to operate in highly contested airspace.
     
  10. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    What contested airspace where stealth aircraft would be necessary would Russia ever operate in? Where is the integrated SAM network that they would have to combat?
     
  11. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Must I explain every sparrows fall?
     
  12. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    You must explain what environment the Russians would face where stealth is necessary.

    The US expects to operate in the face of an integrated air defense network with advanced SAMs. What strong SAM network would Russia ever face?
     
  13. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Shouldn't Russia have thought of this before they developed the aircraft at great expense?
     
  14. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they thought they would turn out to be cheaper once they got past the prototype stage. The US thought the F-22 would be cheaper too. We were going to buy enough of them to replace every F-15. How did that turn out?
     
  15. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Generally, aircraft do get cheaper once they are mass produced.

    The F-22 program was cancelled by Obama to buy votes.

    How did that turn out?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018 at 1:53 PM
  16. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    The F-22 and F-35 turned out far more expensive than was estimated when they were in the prototype stages.

    The F-22 was cancelled because it’s cost has spiraled right t of control and the US doesn’t have a need for that many stealth single-role aircraft.
     
  17. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You appear to think I don't understand that a prototype is typically more expensive.

    The F-22 was cancelled to fund food stamps for democrat votes.
     
  18. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    Prototypes themselves are more expensive but during the prototype testing stage the manufacturers estimate the costs of production models and we’ve seen those are always woefully low for stealth aircraft.

    So how much did Obama cut military spending and transfer instead to food stamps?
     
  19. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    BTW would you like me to post the timeline of US procurement of the F-22 and embarrass you?

    The F-22 procurement was fixed at 183 aircraft in 2007 with final production to be complete and further producrement terminated in 2011.

    Who was the president in 2007 again?
     
  20. Mrbsct

    Mrbsct Active Member

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    Russia doesn't need a massive stealth fleet. It's forces are designed to work together with their SAMs.
     

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