Russia is not a first strike Nuclear threat to anyone.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Condor060, Mar 15, 2022.

  1. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    If they start fueling, yes, we absolutely should take every possible step to take them out before it's even hypothetically possible for them to launch. Now is not the time for time consuming deliberation, and Putin SHOULD know that. If he doesn't, then he's not just a crazy psychopathic baby killer, he's also dumber than he looks, which ain't saying much.

    Same for their boomers, if they so much as FLINCH, torpedoes should be in the water.
     
  2. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Tell me what you need proof of.
    If you have a direct question I am sure I can find information you can access.
     
  3. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why is it this generation has such a difficult time with that?
     
  4. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here are the links
    Because of the extreme differences in views among experts regarding the potential impacts of HEMP on the electric power grid and the potential societal implications, the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) launched a three-year research project in April 2016 to investigate the potential impacts of a HEMP attack on the electric transmission system and to identify possible options for mitigating impacts. This report summarizes the research and findings of this three-year research effort.
    https://www.epri.com/research/products/3002014979


    EPRI Executive Summary
    High-Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse and the Bulk Power System: Potential Impacts and Mitigation Strategies
    Primary Audience: Asset owners and operators of the United States bulk power system
    Secondary Audience: Regulators, state and federal entities
    Key Research Questions
    This research sought to answer two key research questions:
    • What are the potential impacts of a high-altitude electromagnetic pulse (HEMP) attack on the modern electric transmission system?
    • If impacts are of significant concern, what are possible mitigation options and potential costs and benefits of each?
    https://www.epri.com/research/summary/000000003002014979
     
  5. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thank you! That's the information I asked for, but I seem to have to pry it out of righties.
     
  6. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    We stopped flying F14s 15 years ago. Today, that we KNOW of, we have the F18, the F22, and the F35. Who knows (certainly not you or I) what we have that is not known by the general public. The cold war ended 30 years ago, that's an eternity when it comes to technology. Two eternities, actually, and radar is a form of technology.

    Putin can't even properly maintain the tires on his military trucks, you seriously think we aren't a light year ahead of them both with nuclear, and conventional weapons, both offensive and defensive? I'd bet money I don't have that we've got fast attack boats shadowing every Russian boomer on the planet that they don't even know are there, with orders to take them out if they so much as rise to launch depth. I'd bet we have air defense and missile defense systems that most members of Congress don't even know about. I'm also inclined to think we have B2's loitering over the pole, or somewhere out over international waters just flying holding patterns in the sky. Or maybe some newer bomber that nobody knows exists.

    I DO know that when the Kremlin nutjob says he's prepared to go nuclear, I believe him. And I sure as hell hope Biden does, too, because if he doesn't he may end up being the last POTUS, even if he survives.
     
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  7. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    I answered it as soon as you asked the question. I wasn't dodging the question.
    Like I said, I will respond to any question you have and if you need other sources I can provide those as well.
    Its just most of my information is learned over time and research.

    If you want to see probably the coolest technological event we ever accomplished, even more than going to the moon, (In my opinion) you should watch this video on how the CIA and Howard Hughes recovered a downed Soviet Nuclear sub 3 miles below the surface in the early 70s with a secret ship designed to bring it up into the hull so nobody could see it.

    I GUARANTEE this will blow your mind if this is the first time you ever heard of it.



     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
  8. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    That's useful if they want to nuke Ukraine, or Germany, or maybe even the UK. But with only a 1,200 nm combat range, I think the best they could do with US targets is maybe in Alaska. And even that would be a suicide mission, because if their own nukes didn't get them, they wouldn't have enough fuel to go anywhere, at least not without refueling in air. And if they drop nukes, even in Alaska, US fighters would take them and their refuelers out faster than it takes for Usain Bolt to run 100m.
     
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  9. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Condor060 said:
    But they would have to get within 600 miles to use them.
    Do you really think we would allow that?


    You watch way to many movies as you have no clue what your talking about. Not even close


    I told you why they won't start the fueling process as it takes 90 minutes and how most NATO allies and the US would respond.
    Again, you watch too many movies as your theories aren't even close to reality


    Which means what as we don't use F-86s.


    Russian would be a very quiet place for the next 10,000 years if he even attempted to fuel an ICBM.
    Russia knows it
    Everyone in Russia's command staff knows it
    Every NATO ally knows it
    And US command knows it

    You don't get to just imagine away their 90 minute fueling time or imagine away bombers being tracked flying toward US soil, or imagine away their subs being able to get within firing range without detection.

    This isn't 1945.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cybred said:
    Nope, you get to prove it.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Condor060 said:
    Don't make me laugh. You think anyone on PF is going to dance through hoops for a poster that just says Nope?
    NOPE
    You think you know more, prove it.
    I made my statements and they are there to dispute. If you think you have the education to dipute them then be my guest.
    If you think I'm going to waste my time educating you on something I know is way beyond your learning ability, you're dreaming.

    We have all seen way way too many of your post. You can't even recall breaking news or historical facts.
    Don't make me laugh out loud. :roflol:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cybred said:
    Nope, first you have to provide proof.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Condor060 said:
    Nope
     
  10. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forgive my ignorance - how do we know when they're fuelling them? I doubt they'd post the order on Facebook.

    Edit: they seem to have at least 70 solid fuelled ICBMs: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM2_Topol-M
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
  11. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Because they think if we'd just not provoke Putin, everything will be fine. Tell that to the dead Ukranians and their families.

    One thing I do know. While none of us in this thread has the first clue how many Alert-5 aircraft we have, I guarantee it's more now than it was 2 months ago.
     
  12. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thats not accurate. You can't fuel a liquid fueled ICBM in a silo. The cryogenic fuels escaping from the valving would accumulate. Once you light that rocket off those trapped escaped gases would explode. it would be catastrophic. They are moved vertically into launch position outside the silo and fueled. If you ever watched a Saturn 5 rocket at Kennedy Space center for a moon launch you would see the escaping gases from the valves while fueling.
    We have birds looking down on those sites as well as the other 6000 orbiting objects above the earth that belong to other nations.

    Given the height of the current situation you can be guaranteed those sites are being watched like hawks.

    We don't use any liquid fueled missiles. We have 530 LGM-30 Minuteman III solid rocket 3 stage missiles that carry up to 3 warheads.
    They can be launched in minutes hence the name.

    You will have to show me that. I don't believe any of the information I have provided is disputable.

    Yet I routinely watched one squadron of B-52s, containing 15 aircraft, and one squadron of fifteen KC-135 tanker aircraft get airborne within an hour on an ORI. Half of the bombers and tankers were maintained on fifteen-minute alert, fully fueled, armed, and ready for combat, while the remainder were fueled and had to be prepped for flight. I have no idea where you get this information about 4 crews and personnel scattered all over the place. That never happened at McCoy. EVER.

    I was a Warrant Officer in the US Army. My Dad was a Lt Colonel in the Airforce stationed at McCoy.

    Again, not sure who told this stuff but it doesn't work like that. Once missiles are moved into fueling position and NORAD alerts US Air Force command, they will react quickly to defend the US. They don't need presidential authority to do that. Strategic plans for those operations have already been approved to get our forces on alert status. As our aircraft are launching off runways all over the US, the president will discuss options with NORAD to determine what needs to be done. He can stand down the bombers, allow them to continue to their rally points and hold, or send them on the grand tour.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
  13. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would say 1/3 of our AF bombers and tankers are on ready alert.
     
  14. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    You can't fuel a liquid fueled ICBM in a silo. The cryogenic fuels escaping from the valving would accumulate. Once you light that rocket off those trapped escaped gases would explode. it would be catastrophic. They are moved vertically into launch position outside the silo and fueled. If you ever watched a Saturn 5 rocket at Kennedy Space center for a moon launch you would see the escaping gases from the valves while fueling.
    We have birds looking down on those sites as well as the other 6000 orbiting objects above the earth that belong to other nations.

    And yes, Russia does have about 70 solid rocket missiles. 18 of them are on mobile tracks and the rest are in silos.
    We have no idea if they can reach the US and neither does Russia. The longest successful test was done back in the 90s and it was on a 4000 mile target. The US is 5500 miles.
    Out of 6 test, 3 exploded. So its unclear if they have the range but one thing is certain. To even have a chance they would only carry one warhead and that wouldn't be a first strike option.
    Its more of a hail Mary option for a US strike. Those would be more of a EU strike package.
     
  15. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    And your copied and pasted post means what exactly?
     
  16. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    That you don't provide proof.
     
  17. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Seems theres 5 pages of conversation, questions, and links by several posters.
    You're the only one who has a problem.
    Heres an idea, ask a question if theres something you don't understand or think isn't accurate.
     
  18. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    An ICBM takes about 30 min of flight time and i think has 3 phases - boost/launch, space phase, approach phase. ICBMS also have ability to release multiple warheads, some decoys. The speed at which ICBMs travel is too fast for any anti missile defense although there is some technology like lasers released from aircraft, devices that form ‘clouds’ in space to block etc.. but the icbm travels too fast once it is in space, think around 10k plus miles per hour and once it re-enters atmosphere, takes about 1 min until impact. The best counter measure is during boost phase but US would need to detect and have subs or aircraft nearby.

    with about 5,000 warheads in russia and Us arsenal, counter measures are not viable, especially after launch. Detecting fueling and striking is a naive way of thinking sadly. Us doesn’t have the capability to fully neutralize all threats if russia decides to fuel and launch, many would get off and be here within 30 mins… over 200 million will die within weeks and nuclear winters would result in 1bi dead. Even a war between pakistan and india would devastate many other parts of the world


    There is no stopping armageddon if man decides to engage in nuclear war
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
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  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also have a problem. In spite of your rhetoric, you have proved nothing.
     
  20. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    An yet a fairly large drone carrying a large bomb just crossed two NATO countries UNDETECTED before crashing into the ground inside a third NATO country undetected until it crashed and the large bomb exploded???? Figure that one out because the 3 countries involved cannot seem to explain how it happened.
     
  21. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    My information is there to be disputed.
    The current existence of the Russian ICBM and equipment inventory I listed, isn't disputable.
    Its fact.
    The current exitance of the US ICBM and equipment inventory I listed, isn't disputable.
    Its fact

    If you think Russian bombers can get within 600 miles of the US border undetected, thats just ridiculous and a severe lack of knowledge.

    If you think the US or its allies will allow Russia to launch an ICBM, you're just being obtuse.

    What is it you need proof of?
     
  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of that constitutes proof.
     
  23. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well its common sense and historically known information so theres that.
     
  24. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The critical information is how many interceptor aircraft we could get in the air at one time, how many antiaircraft batteries we could have on line at one time and how accurately we can position those assets? In addition, we need to know how many missiles and aircraft with bombs the Russians could attack us with? The question is whether we have the capability to stop them. We have decide how many bombs landing on American soil is tolerable because we know that there will always be a few who will make it through in the fog of war. You have provided nothing with addresses those questions.
     
  25. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which would have what to do with Russia's ICBM inventory and its inability to be a first strike nuclear power?
     

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