Russia to disconnect from the internet as part of a planned test

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Is this just caution I wonder? Or is there something deeper involved?

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/russi...Cy1yVM0d2yyClhygqU40LrTfpvKA_cly5VU4klujRTZJY
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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  3. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    If they were planning to do something major that their people would oppose they might block external communication in this way...eg an unprovoked nuclear attack that would invite retaliation...

    I sure hope not.

    Realistically, IMO it probably has something to do with blocking cyber attacks.
     
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  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    Interesting! I read that Moscow fears being cut off from the internet and is creating its own system to take over as a precaution. I also read Russia has laws and regulations and that google which censors like mad in the US, ignored them and was fined.
     
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  5. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen our resident Russian posters lately, or maybe I just haven't noticed them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  6. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    You are aware that the internet is/was a US government / US military communications project from day one don't you?
     
  7. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that Jeanette in her post No. 4 is on the money in this respect.
     
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  8. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    I've been thinking that also.
     
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  9. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    For starters this defeats the concept of the internet which is to provide international communication regardless of any single point of failure.

    Secondly this sets up a single point of failure for the Russians which could become a target of denial of service hackers at some point in the future.

    Thirdly I wonder how many of the PF members might "disappear" during this "planned test" period.

    There can't be any "alternative system" since the internet only works because all participants rely upon the same internet protocol standards. Setting up a competing "alternative internet protocol" would require the cooperation of both hardware manufacturers and corporations willing to bear the additional cost for no realistic benefit.
     
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  10. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Ditto the usual American military / intelligence contingent who come out at night to play when Russian members post here.
     
  11. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    You appear to be missing the fact that the internet was a project of the US military DARPA. It therefore makes sense to me that Russia would want to have the ability to be able to act independent of it, should it ever be used, abused - or closed down - as a hybrid warfare action.

    It also makes sense to me that an Asian internet could arise at some point in the future because of the stranglehold the US has over the present one. I can see no inherent reason why there won't at some point in the future be several different internet's - each able to integrate and operate in harmony together, but each also able to disconnect as and when viewed as necessary.

    I think this is probable because America has shown itself unable to adhere to international agreements it has entered into and avoids membership in international bodies like the International Criminal Court, as well as ignoring international law when it wishes to.

    Indications that this could happen are Russia's decision to establish its own SWIFT system and China establishing its own financial infrastructure independent of the US /Western institutions (HERE).

    For me it's only a matter of time...
     
  12. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    You appear to be entirely missing the fundamental concept DRIVING the invention of the internet by DARPA!

    The threat was that nuclear weapons could target communication centers and thus render the military incapable of communicating effectively in the aftermath. The internet was devised as a means to communicate regardless as to how much infrastructure has been destroyed. The key to that communication is that there is NO SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE thereby making it IMPOSSIBLE to target and destroy all means of communication.

    Having an alternative "internet communication protocol standard" would require that not only would ALL BRICS nations have to agree upon this alternative internet protocol but that they would have to provide an INCENTIVE to ALL corporations WORLDWIDE to bear the EXPENSE of implementing it.

    The single biggest IMPEDIMENT to coming up with an alternative internet protocol is that it would be impossible to COST JUSTIFY it.

    Secondly your example of SWIFT demonstrates yet another misunderstanding of the basis concepts. There already are alternatives for SWIFT and they all work on the existing internet.

    As far as an alternative FINANCIAL infrastructure is concerned that is already an ONGOING project called BRICS. I highly recommend that you do some research on it.

    Getting back to your OP the Russians have never embraced the concept of the internet just as the Chinese haven't either. They don't like it because it allows for the easy dissemination of IDEAS that could UNDERMINE the authority of the rulers of those nations. Trying to FORCE all internet communications through a SINGLE government controlled entity enables the Russians to identify and locate those who are using the internet to spread IDEAS!

    Here is a basic primer about the internet and what made it what it is today. Yes, it was funded by DARPA for MILITARY purposes however it was DEVELOPED by ACADEMICS in universities and colleges. Those academics saw an immediate benefit to themselves in the sharing of IDEAS with their colleagues all around the world. Note that some of the most well known and well used applications on the internet today deal with the SHARING of INFORMATION rather than commerce or the military. Facebook is a prime example of this information sharing concept. What is NOTEWORTHY is that it was the sharing on Facebook of the immolation sacrifice that TRIGGERED the Arab Spring revolution.

    The Powers-that-be in Russia and China are well aware of the threat posed by the sharing of IDEAS on the internet so they want to CONTROL this as best they can.

    The world does not need any alternative internet protocols because there are enough ways to ensure that information can be safely communicated over the existing system. The current instability of the BLOTUS is not sufficient to cost justify what you are proposing. Corporate America is not going to collapse just because the BLOTUS makes asinine statements. The US economy is currently running on borrowed time because we are way overdue for a recession. However that is just another aspect of the economy that is already factored in and won't result in anything untoward.
     
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  13. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for you bloviating and shouting. It's always an impressive event to watch someone hyperventilating in public.

    I'm embarrassed for you.

    A "standard communications protocol". Really? Is stating the utterly obvious a talent of yours? I repeat the fundamental point I made earlier. The internet is a US invention designed by DARPA and subject to US and Western control and the reason why alternatives are needed is exactly that which you described: a nuclear strike.

    And since the US are the only nation who have both used nuclear weapons and sought to "embrace" the military concept of a first nuclear strike, one obviously sees the Russians disconnection in this light... given the US plan to surround them with anti-ballistic missiles system raising - yet again - the principle of a first strike policy.

    For your information, I have done plenty of research on BRICS and the other financial infrastructure matters over many years including Russia's SWIFT alternative. Probably unlike you, I have actually used SWIFT for many years along with other clearing systems - and visited the HQ of most of the European clearing systems. So, unlike you I'm speaking form personal experience not a Wiki page or similar.

    Justifying the cost of an internet alternative, when it comes to national defence, is something I think any sensible major nation will take where they assume that they will be the subject of a major attack. Hardened anti- EMP communications are essential as a minimum and those have been in place for years... decades, anyway

    Meanwhile methinks you protest too much on the point of cost and are guilty of using the old scammer's principle that blustering beats brains. It doesn't. It merely triggers suspicion of what justification underpins the bluster.

    I utterly disagree that the Russian and Chinese haven't embraced the concept of the internet. They have. Saying that this was "my point" in the OP is simply an untruth. I never made that statement. Now or ever.

    But both of the above nations recognise that the internet is Western controlled and they need to be able to isolate themselves from that and develop alternatives. I can't blame them for that. Look how the US has financially sanctioned them over the years. Look how the US threatened to remove Russia's access to SWIFT. Building architecture that the US has no control over would be (and I think is) seen as imperative.

    That you think the US economy will recover on an overdue Bull run and that this will defeat the "recession" (a misnomer if ever there was one) is simply laughable. Possessing a $22 trillion accumulated debt and having zero way to repay it - ever - means the US is de facto already bankrupt. It is running on fumes.

    And once it loses its reserve currency status - the near to mid future - it will crash and burn. People all over the world will buy popcorn and a beer and kick back and watch it happen on TV... because it will be well deserved -- even though there will be many, many, many ordinary Americans undeserving of being casualties. I wish them no harm personally, but I have no time for the American elite who have brought ordinary Americans to this sorry state of affairs and I have no patience with people like you who continue to brainlessly spout their brand of snake-oil.

    Your final dross comment about "ideas" is likewise laughable and just a little juvenile. Clearly you do not understand the world in the pragmatic sense of how nations operate.

    And might I say as a parting shot you're living in a past that didn't really exist anyway. Colour yourself one of those who swallowed the long grifter's baited hook.
     
  14. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    So.. let them. Let Russia isolate themselves. And when they do, we can watch and compare their version of tyranny with that of those in the democratic party who wish they were able to control the people in the same way.....
     
  15. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    Ironic PROJECTION of your own shortcomings on ALL counts duly noted for the record and ignored for derogatory reasons!

    Your appeal to authority logical fallacy is highly amusing since it contains so many egregious assumptions based upon your own arrogance and all too obvious belief in CONSPIRACIES!

    Just to provide one glaringly OBVIOUS example the National Debt is NOT going to cause the United States to declare bankruptcy because there is NO international court that exists in order to arbitrate the bankruptcy proceedings of a sovereign nation so as to provide relief to the creditors, the primary one being We the People. Furthermore the US merely has to RAISE TAXES on the wealthy in order to service the debt and/or print more money in order deflate the value of the debt owed. The former would be more likely given that the latter would cause rampant inflation.

    That you are unaware of these FACTUAL REALITIES is your problem, not mine.

    I will leave you to wallow in your own conspiracies since that seems to be your only comfort zone and I would not want to inflict any further cognitive dissonance by exposing all of your fallacies.

    Have a nice day!
     
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  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Perhaps we should throw Russia off the net.
     
  17. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Projection? You've been reading a dictionary again. But more on that below.

    In regard to your strange point about bankruptcy it is evident that you don't have a clue about finance. I think I have said this before about you (although I may be conflating you with someone else?), but I think you're quite young. Or so naive as to manifest in your posts as young.

    In any event, your curios statement about an international court to "arbitrate" is way off the mark. Really way off. Usually it is the Paris Club (not a court) that seeks to find solutions to situations of national indebtedness between nations by setting out an agreed repayment schedule between debtor and creditor nations. But with $22 trillion and growing at about $1T annually that dog ain't gonna hunt. It amounts to $180,000 per citizen tax-payer. In five to ten years when the crash is likely to come down the pike we're probably talking £30 trillion. In other words it's a debt that can't be repaid and that's the textbook definition of bankrupt.

    Which means that when the plug is pulled and foreign nations and the world's wealthy start ripping at each other's face to get their money out of the US first, before the house of cards collapses - and they will - the US won't be able to buy a damn thing outside of its borders. Not even candles for those dark nights.

    Unless the US has gold or other hard currencies to use in exchange or something other of value to barter. And the US has no gold worth talking about... according to various experts on the subject. They've used it all up to play the fiat money game. Which is why Germany and other nations in recent years have repatriated all their bullion from the NY Fed.

    And btw, good luck with raising taxes from the wealthy to repay the national debt. They will be the first rat's clambering off the sinking ship. They'll be well gone before everybody else - ordinary Yanks - are even aware what is happening.

    When the Soviet Union crashed in 1991 the entire nation's gold reserves (and they were the second largest gold producer in the world - or were at the time) disappeared literally overnight; shipped overseas on military Antonov transport planes - destination: London and Switzerland by fleeing KGB generals and VIP apparatchiks in the know.

    Now back to projection. Let's discuss this in detail. Tell me what you know about it? I suggest you stay clear of Wiki (just a piece of advice but we'll see). I'll be looking forward to it - should you choose to accept this assignment anyway. My guess is that you'll just watch it fizzle and self destruct like in the Mission Impossible films.
     
  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    Thank you for proving me 100% correct that puerile conspiracies are your comfort zone!
     
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  19. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Why not China too?
     
  20. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    So... absolutely no ability to respond to the points made other than dropping the expected ad hom bomb and running to hide in the woods.

    As I recall, this is what happened last time we crossed swords too. It seems that you get on your soapbox and bloviate, get in way over your head, flounder, panic -- and then bolt for it.

    As I said above you're really just a kid.
     
  21. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    newsflash... everything is censored, always has been... there's a reason why most people (the smart ones) say "don't believe it, just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true"...

    we've been 'spoon fed' bs for decades and the internet makes it easier... there is no greater censure of truth than that in the great 'us of a'... ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Sure, why not?
     
  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    You don't think Russia should take precautions if case the internet is cut off? If they have the ability to form an alternative, why not. Russia established their own internal SWIFT with the first sanctions and for the same reason.
     
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  24. MrFirst

    MrFirst Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Keep calm. We're watching you. :smoking:
     
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  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019

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