Salt Lake City - Police shot 13 year old with autism

Depends, in some states it's a part of Jim Crow that never stopped.

So much for inalienable rights. Here in Maine everybody votes, even if you're in prison. Why the F not...

 

Getting thrown in prison is a sign you're not responsible enough to vote, or make good decisions. I would not restore their 2A rights either.

 

How is saying "We don't know and shouldn't decide until we have the facts" speculating? What is a fact is that mentally ill people are incredibly strong, highly resistant to pain and cannot be reasoned with, every study in the world confirms that. Whatever is the terror in the lives the police are it and they fight like Satan because they literally think they're fighting for their lives. We ask no other people in society to do what the police do and then people whine and snivel over the one in a million time it goes wrong. Pure hypocrisy.

Oh I want this thread, you're running away are you? Come on, have the courage of your convictions, you don't even have to admit you're wrong, just say "We don't know yet and let's wait until we have the facts".

 

I'm not flamebaiting, I'm simply disagreeing with you. This thread should be here, to explore the issues involved, I'm not demanding people stop posting here, where did you get that idea? How are my posts 'heinous' exactly? For having empathy with these poor officers forced into this dreadful situation?

When you have had to physically restrain a violent mentally ill person you come back to me.

 

But it applies to everyone, regardless of race?

 

Jim Crow?

You know the answer.

 

It's a sign in some states that they want to disenfranchise enough people to keep White power...

Wanna hear the latest, the swamp is salivating over the possibility of overturning Brown v Board of Education.

 

Prejudice is part of human nature (unfortunately) and applies to anyone who is out of the ordinary, including minorities. This kid had psychological issues (Asperger's Syndrome) & if one follows Mandelus' NY Times Link (at top), there is further info & a link about the frequency with which people afflicted w/ this problem get stopped by police, and the Salt Lake City police's troubled history regarding people w/ mental issues.

Homeless people, also, are treated worse than they would if they merely looked more, "normal," because police are people, so will have the same biases as members of the community. One might think that police would have, "special training," to avoid these prejudices (who could give it to them?) but, sadly, one would be disappointed.

I'm not trying to say that police violence is at all acceptable. When we see the flagrant use of unnecessary force & the wanton, callous disregard for citizen safety, it's impossible not to feel there is a real problem in that culture. Yet, I'm only this moment asking myself, if the general citizenry were armed not just w/ weapons but w/ authority to abuse, how much different would the result be?

From the time we are young, we're taught to identify the different; or, in the words of the Sesame Street song I grew up with, & still remember well:

One of these----things------is
NOT - like - theO-thers
One of these-----things----- just
DOESN'T------------beLong...

To have the a meaningful effect on
this tragic & disgraceful treatment by police of those who are different, maybe the wisest course is not to look at the police as though THEY are DIFFERENT;
maybe the best way to see that our well-intentioned desires for more humane policing are realized to their fullest capacity, we may benefit from examining the role OUR culture plays, in the
failings of theirs.

 

Hence why it can't be?

 

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise you were posting from fantasyland.

 

Unfair, people call the police to the mentally ill, as in this case, every police force has an unfortunate history with the mentally ill because it is a no win situation for them, they are called when people are out of control and there is no other alternative but to use force. In times past the mentally ill were locked up in Nurse Ratched's asylum and the police didn't have a problem, now they're released onto the street because it's considered more 'humane'. Again homeless people cause trouble and one of the reasons they are homeless is that they are drunks, drug addicts and mentally ill or a combination of all three. The police would love not to have to deal with either group but they have no choice. there is no one else to call.

The police are saints who have society's problems dumped upon them and are then sniped at by hindsight hypocrites who have never been in the same situation and have no idea what they are talking about. I say from now on the police should refuse to deal with the homeless and mentally ill, let the public handle them themselves and see how long it takes for them to come whining and snivelling, begging for their help when they discover the reality of the situation.

 

So in your world Jim Crow applied to white people?

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Which is? Elucidate, please?

 

If it takes being, "in one's position," to be able to, "call out," someone
without being a, "hypocrit...who has no idea what they are talking about---"

how extensive is your experience w/ homelessness?

It's the plank in our own eyes, brother, that's most often the problem
and least often
considered the cause.

That was what my 1st post was suggesting (&, if you didn't fully read it because you thought you'd seen enough to judge the rest, my post suggested that plank might be lodged in the eyes of the people as a whole-- including you, Reasonablerob-- not an indictment specifically of the police as the source of this problem)

 

Huge, dealt with hundreds, thousands of them. What about responding to the rest of my points?

 

how extensive is your experience w/ homelessness?

So, "dealing," with the homeless is a valid basis for YOU to render judgement upon homeless people at large. Then why aren't the experience of blacks, especially poor blacks (& men in particular), many of whom I'm sure have had more interaction w/ police (& less option in the matter) than you have w/ the homeless, sufficient to take seriously their views on the police? There are 2 sides to every human interaction.

 

Huge, dealt with hundreds, thousands of them. What about responding to the rest of my points?

And the police are always right. You asked me for my experience, I gave it to you and now you seek to disregard it. I do not take the views of blacks seriously because they do not address the issue of violent crime within their community and therefore are hypocritical. There are 2 sides to every human interaction but you must have empathy with the police's view.

 

I'm sorry, can you show me again where black inmates lose those rights while white ones don't?

 

The Police were supposed to be giving an update yesterday. My search has brought no update.

 

You know perfectly well that that was not what I said what I did to. If you are not going to debate honestly and instead are playing games I am not joining in.,

No it isn't. Clearly you again are trying to justify the shooting of them but you know nothing about autism that is clear.

Wow, you are quite a customer. No they do not. This is simply you once again dehumanising people with mental illness, dehumanising people with autism in order to support your right were it you to pummell this boy full of bullets because he is scared and running away.

No, only someone with severe mental illness themselves believe that they need to treat 13 year old children like that. Anyone who thinks as you say when involved in day to day work needs to be laid off until they get their head together.

Ah! Well at least at last you have admitted it looks like it went wrong. People complain about bad poplice work. If that work involves life changing injuries for a thirteen year old boy then of course they will be even more concerned. We do not as yet have the result of the enquiry but we do know that there was no gun as the police appear to have said, that they were told he had Aspergers, that he was not violent but did shout and yell because he was going through a trauma and Mum was told the police would deal with this in a reasonable way.

Now I don't know as yet whether the actions taken by the police were taken because of their lack of knowledge of autism which would require they not be used in such work and that that work be defunded from the police and given to people with the expertise to deal with an Aspergers child having an 'episode'. If however it is much worse, if it is because the Policeman thought like you that everyone with any mental illness was violent all the time and was unable to feel pain and had the strength of the incredible hulk so that the only thing which could be done is to fill his body with bullets, then I think he will be going to see the psychiatrist or possibly finding himself arrested and why you are so fixated in causing him pain I do not know but it is troubling.

The evidence so far suggests that this was a massive and unnecessary foul up by the police which is going to affect that child for his entire life. This is a very serious issue. People with severe mental health issues as you have been speaking about should not be in the police.

You see children with Autism as people to shoot several times because you believe they do not feel pain and you have now added are very strong for good measure. However where you come from and possibly are a policeman the people see children with autism as vulnerable people who the police should not be arresting, not as super strong hulks who feel no pain and I gave you a link to show you that.

More than once on this thread someone has said people should stop posting on it. One of those people was you. Can you never be honest or were you drunk that time?

 

They've said they're going to give an update on Monday.

 

Don't run away, have the courage of your convictions! In Vino Veritas! And what I said was you should stop condemning these poor officers until you know the facts. I know plenty about autism, in fact I teach the subject. If the officers thought that necessary then it was, let's get the facts. The fact that he is 13 is irrelevant. The mum didn't have to tackle this little maniac, like so many others she dumps her problems on the police. Of course people with severe mental difficulties shouldn't be in the police, whoever said they should?

This is reality, police shouldn't be dealing with the mentally ill but there is no one else. You see 'vulnerable' but then you're not the one called in to subdue them when they're out of their minds, then they ARE the Hulk.

 

Interesting ... if 2 police officers totally fail in their service and shoot an unarmed 13 year old boy with autism several times, then it shows a general problem in the training of American police officers ... especially if they are trigger-happy!

Interesting how much bullshit you can write in so few words ...

Bloody hell! The child did not cut his finger or fell from the tree and broke his arm in order to treat the child himself or to take it to the hospital in his own car!
Autosmus is a serious disease in which, through various circumstances, people can have violent seizures that can get them out of control. A mother is not able to do this on her own and it is a perfectly legitimate medical emergency in which every mother in the USA and all over the world can call 911 and ask for help, even have to ask for help!
And that's exactly what the mother did and asked for an intervention team to calm the boy down again and then treat him accordingly ...
She didn't call and ask for 2 trigger-happy cops or portray it as some kind of domestic violence situation!

Tell me what is the 911 number for? When should you call them?
When you need the police because, for example, there is a burglar in your house? Or should you solve it yourself because it's your problem and not the problem of the police, eh?
When there is a fire and you need the fire brigade? Or is such a fire your own personal problem / responsibility and you should just take a bucket and a hip tube to fight the fire by your own, eh?
If there is a medical emergency, e.g. A heart attack? Or is that also a personal matter and you can drive the sick person to the hospital yourself if you cannot treat it yourself, eh?

First learn what autism is and that it is not a run-of-the-mill disease / issue! Damn it ... your attempt to deny your mother the legitimation that it was an emergency in which she should call 911 is just ridiculous!

 

Sure ... and why were no paramedics there and only the police with 2 incompetent and trigger happy cops?

1. Learn to spell
2. learn to accept facts even you don't like them
3. Learn to give answers with sense!