SBU arrests DPR militant that transported BUK used on MH17.

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by zoom_copter66, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    That’s not what commission from Netherlands think. And they saw the real evidence.
     
  2. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    The russians didn't claim it was SU25. They said that there was a military plane, judgning on the size it COULD be SU-25. There is quite a difference.
     
  3. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now explain to me, how could SU25 with top speed 975kmh and service ceiling of 7000 meters catch up and get in front of an airliner traveling 930kmh at 10000 meters.
     
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  4. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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  5. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    I need to see the sense. If the sense was to find the real guilty side and to avoid such tragedies in future there should have been no accusations from the start and there should have been open and including all the sides interested commission. For now we have a multi year accusation of one side which is also accused of hundreds of other bloody crimes with no or debatable proofs and absolutely no action. It's enough for me to make a conclusion on what is going on and that Netherland commission is the last place I would go to find the truth.
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I already did.

    Elbit Industries of Israel has modernized SU25 for years. New engines, modern avionics and other improvements to performance.

    Such modifications for older airplanes are very common in the industry.

    You should read about these things so that you could carry on an adult conversation.

    This is from 2001. http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...2/upgraded-su_25-fighter-flies-(apr.-19).html
     
  7. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Prove that Ukraine repurposed their SU25. It’s not even an upgrade, it’s a repurpose.
    Then, once you prove that, I’d like you to explain to me why Ukraine would go through all this trouble when it already has all purpose fighter jets that are capable of 2400 kmh 18,000 meter flight?
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know, that whole period of Lenin and Stalin's treatment of the Russian people went
    largely unreported in the West - and openly, blatantly denied by the Western Left. It was
    only with Khrushchev's denunciation that our home-grown Useful Idiots were forced to
    admit, sort of, that this stuff was going on. But... any allegation of 80 million Chinese or
    a few million Indo Chinese and Koreans dying at the hands of Communists were denied,
    all over again.

    It's hard to believe that the same people in the West who defended Communism now will
    happily defend fascism and oligarchism in Russia. And Putin can rely upon the same type
    of people to support him when he imprisons, beats up or poisons his opponents. Or, even,
    when he shoots down planes.
     
  9. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    They released data from radars. They claimed that 2 planes were present at the area close to Boeing. One COULD be Su-25, the other was not identified because of low altitudes. But radar data doesn't show you many things. The words of russian ministry of defense was based at the words of ukrainian ministry of defense that NO ukrainian or other warplanes were present at the crush moment in the area. They had a proof of the contrary. But web-sites like 'stopfake' western taxpayer supported scum started the discussion about the possibility of Su-25 to shoot down the plane about the top altitudes it could or couldn't fly to and other non-important stuff instead of asking Ukrain or the US for their radar data. If there was such an evidence we could ask Ukraine what exactly these planes were doing in the area, what was its orders etc.
     
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You prove that a BUK took down the airplane. You prove any element of that bullshit story.

    You cannot.
     
  11. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    The question is different. If there was no planes why didn't Ukraine or the US present the data of their radars? It is an evidence. These are not words. If there was a Su-25 in the region and it was on a mission to attack something - there should be an explanation. Russian radars haven't seen much of the territory.
     
  12. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Even a radar data from Russia tells that there used to be 3-6 km from an aircraft (possibly Su-25) to Boeing MH-17. Which is an easy range for AA rocket but impossible for gunfire. I myself think of different stories.

    Su-25 could hunt for SAMs in the region using Boeing as a fishing bait. That's not a good story to tell and this is why it is concealed. In its turn the rebels could use a long mechanism to trace aircraft receiving data from russian radars and using lonely BUK-missiles revealing them only in case of the information from Russia. So, russians could locate Su-25 and report it to BUK missile, who turned on the radar by mistake taking Boeing instead of Su-25.
     
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  13. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    It is possible....maybe it wasn't"?....still running with that theory? So you're saying a "pickup truck" of a plane managed to catch up...and overtake...."a Corvette" of a plane so to speak,ROFL? Like I said that's been debunked, and you're outta gas, dude.

    Netherlands have the evidence.....Ukrainians have bagged one suspect, the other three are hiding in Moscovia.....and I'll hazard a guess that those 3 may/will end up dead somewhere from a "heart attack", strangled, shot, or slip on a banana, before they even get close to a courtroom somewhere. Lol Putinka doesn't like loose ends!:))
     
  14. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I just read your link and it doesn’t claim they improved SU25s top speed and service ceiling.
    My question stands: how could SU25 with top speed 975kmh and service ceiling of 7000 meters catch up and get in front of an airliner traveling 930kmh at 10000 meters.

    Answer it!
     
  15. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    So, you admit - Russians shot down B777?
     
  16. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Su-25 doesn't need to catch the airplane and hit it withj a hammer. An air-to-air rocket can easily catch any plane. The whole discussion around altitudes and speed is hollow, useless and misleading.
     
  17. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    You make a claim that Netherlands commission lies.
    Burden of proof is on you, not me.
    I’m just citing known facts that support the commission findings. The joint commissions findings make perfect sense to me.
     
  18. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Ok, prove that someone mounted an air to air missile on SU25. Especially in Ukraine.
    And explain - why would someone do that if they have over 20 Migs that can do the job?
     
  19. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    I said that I think so. But my thinking without evidence doesn't make me to blame anyone. You see that you try to blame Russia and Putin no matter what. While I am trying to think of what could lead to the tragedy in order to avoid such a tragedy in the future. Because tomorrow it can happen again to the relatives of any visitor of this website.
     
  20. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    By the way, your buddy there claims B777 was shot with cannon fire.
    That kind of rules out AAM.
     
  21. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    My thinking is based on commissions findings that looked at the evidence for several years in a row. It’s a better base than some conspiracy theories.
     
  22. bidjo

    bidjo Banned

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    I presented prof, Ukrainian SU25 ceiling is 10000 meters.
    The bus speed is 60 miles per hour, how can you get on it if your speed is 5 miles per hour. It's simple you know the speed and direction. Go to school.
     
  23. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    How can I possibly prove that? I told that it is POSSIBLE. For instance Su-25 could be used to shoot down the plane on purpose. Why not MIGs& Because they would be seen and identified by the radars or some local citizen could film it if it was flying too low. Su-25 presence could be explained otherwise. Or it could happen accidentally. A pilot of Su-25 could get scared of radar data of the Boeing and start a rocket thinking it is russian interceptor. There millions of different possibillities yet no proof.

    The propaganda spread by that Dutch gang of propgandists is based on the stupid line of suppositions.
    - It couldn't be a plane (we saw no evidence)
    - It couldn't be ukrainian SAM (we saw no evidence)
    - It could only be Russia and Putin (you don't need the evidence just because it is the only option)...

    I am not a Dutch propagandist or british prime-minister. I don't lie.
     
  24. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Right. And you certainly can tell me what exactly this 'evidence' is, right? :)

    I am listening.
     
  25. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Bidlo you don’t have proof - Russians claimed the aircraft was behind SU25.
    https://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3484

    No matter how much you want SU25 to be able to shoot down that B777, it simply can’t. Pigs can’t fly and SU25 can’t shoot down an airliner.
     

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