Scientists Accidentally Discovered Quark Fusion, Could It Be the Future of Energy?

Discussion in 'Science' started by wgabrie, May 30, 2018.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Um the lady in the video says that scientists already dismiss this since the amount of energy it would take to create this new energy would be more than it would produce.
     
    Questerr likes this.
  3. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oops, yes you're right.

    I noticed that too but I thought maybe she was mistaken because it's being paraded around like a new energy source.
     
  4. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also, she states that this new energy has such a short life span that it couldn't be used for a bomb.

    Well that also means it won't last long enough to produce any stored power.

    Basically it flashes and is gone.

    If you could tap that for power you could also use it to power a weapon.
     
  5. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,237
    Likes Received:
    4,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean like how it takes more energy to produce wind turbines and solar panels than we will see in return? I say we go for it and give them $500 mil grants every year.

    But honestly though, I hope they keep experimenting with this and see if they can come up with a more viable means of harnessing the energy. Maybe the net energy will change sides and the balance to more on the out going than the incoming.
     
    modernpaladin and AlphaOmega like this.
  6. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Please show evidence that it takes more energy to produce wind turbins and solar panels than we see in return? I'd like numbers and testing protocols, etc.
     
  7. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,415
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it's nothing like your fantasy. Who told you such a crazy thing, and why did you fall for it?

    Quark fusion is never going to be economically practical, just as hydrogen fusion will never be economically practical. The ITER experimental fusion facility in France, has a price tag of around $40 billion. And it's not even a prototype, just an experimental facility, one that isn't planning to start an actual fusion reaction until 2035. Any fusion power plants? Add another 10 years.

    Meanwhile, over those 30 years, wind and solar and battery storage will keep getting cheaper. Why would anyone pick incredibly expensive fusion over cheap renewables? Even if hydrogen fusion can be made to work, the free market will laugh at it. Fusion will have niche applications like spacecraft drives, but won't be used for normal electricity generation.
     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The future is probably using the energy of our star, bar any huge discovery. And we will be good with solar until the sun burps again and the best case scenerio for humanity is a dark age of hundreds if not thousands of years. There seems to be growing evidence that what ended the last ice age was the sun's solar ejections. Stars may not be as long term stable as we believe. And given our high tech society, this kind of eruption is like nothing seen since the one that might have occurred close to 10, 000 BC. It would implode civilizations around the world, mass loss of life with survivors being underground bunkers or caves. Nuclear reactors would melt down around the world, creating something much worse than the last eruption that "may" have happened back then, if these scientists are right in their conjecture. Along with earthquakes and volcanic events, both having a relationship with our star and its state.
     
  9. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,792
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Too bad that cold fusion turn out to be non-existence a few decades ago.

    Now is so call quark fusion for real or just a fantasy similar to cold fusion?

    As I do keep an eye out for such announcements as quark fusion would be and I am only hearing of it on this thread my nonsense detector is going off big time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  10. Blinda Vaganto

    Blinda Vaganto Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    At some point in the future nuclear fusion will certainly be much cheaper and more efficient than wind and solar power.
     
    primate and DarkDaimon like this.
  11. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    From my experience, 99.9% of such ``discoveries" are fake news. Photovoltaics are the future of energy.
     
  12. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I doubt. Solar Power will lead to the new Energy Revolution and Industrial Revolution.
     
  13. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Cold Fusion exists at pressures unattainable on Earth. It is studied by Astrophysics.
     
  14. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It already has. While the rest of the world was sleeping, solar based corporations are suddenly employing more people then the petroleum industry. If that’s not a revolution of sorts, what is ?
     
  15. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It should take about 20 years for Solar Power to generate as much energy as oil, but it will happen.
     
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are many discoveries that existed no where else on earth that science has emulated. Nuclear fusion, the phone, generating electricity for mass consumption and the lowly internal combustion engine were dissed and not found in nature and were thought to be imposssible; just before they become common place.
     
  17. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As far as central power distribution is concerned, that sounds very reasonable and I completely agree given the technology we have now. . What we are not accounting for, is that solar power allows everyone who participates the ability to “sell” power to the grid.

    Often what happens with predictions, is that a scientific discovery becomes a big game changer in Less then a decade. If solar generation and distribution technology takes a quantum leap because of a new discover that allows homes to become independent of central power distribution and becomes the power source itself, the change can come as fast as as the technology can be economically distributed. The cell phone and digital technology was a huge game changer and every year the predictions shortened with each new discovery in this area.

    A cheap lightweight battery with greater storage capacity could make anything but solar power obsolete in a decade. That it will happen is a given. We no longer depend upon whale oil with the discovery of oil deposits; it happened very quickly. The Beverly hillbilly’s played a big role.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  19. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's because of factories. You need far fewer people to drill, ship and refine petroleum than to mine, ship and manufacture solar panels. That is not a good thing by the way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  20. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When they get the organic solar panels into general use and stop using those toxic conventional ones, solar will be able to power residential homes in the lower latitudes and subsidize power for homes in higher latitudes. You will still need nuclear to provide base power because solar will NEVER be able to provide enough power for commercial use and all the power used by homes past the Tropics. Most of the worlds population isn't located around the equator its located above the Tropic of Cancer where you get significantly less sunlight per year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  21. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The global energy demand is about 130,000 TWHrs/year
    [​IMG]

    Algae can produce about 5000 gallons per acre year. Assume 50% efficiency for growth and processing, yielding a net 2500 gallons per acre-year. Since is this all in terms of per year, I will drop that term.

    Biodiesel [B100] from algae has 34.8 KWhrs of energy per gallon.

    So you might want to check my math, but I show that in order to replace all sources of energy globally, using nothing but B100 from algae, it would require about 3.8 x 10^12 gallons of fuel. This would require about 1.5 billion acres of area for algae growth [which can be farmed in the ocean]. This results in about 2.3 million square miles, or a square about 1500 miles on each side.

    For perspective, we grow about 90 million acres of corn in the US. So by farming about 12 times as much area of the oceans for algae for fuel, all of the energy needs of the planet could be met. And it is carbon neutral.

    Algae fuels are compatible with existing engine technology and the existing energy infrastructure, and even outperformed aviation fuel in a Boeing 737 test flight using algae oils.

    Algae is an organic solar collector. It just produces fuel instead of electricity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  22. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I assume you mean farming for algae as it exists and not creating artificial algae blooms because that would be disasterous to the environment. Google red tide.
     
  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Farming algae in the ocean in contained systems. You can't grow high-yield algae [in terms of fuels] in the wild or open systems. And you want the density to be about 1% algae by weight before processing. That looks like pea soup. You would never get that density in the wild.

    It doesn't take much as far as containment - pretty much glorified giant baggies filled with algae water. As a system it would be somewhat complex but it is doable. Ironically, abandoned ocean oil platforms would serve as ideal processing centers and a hub for each farm. And there are constellations of them in the gulf of Mexico for example, where you have a lot of light and warm water. That is what they actually call them in the shipping industry, because a map of oil platforms looks like a starry sky.

    Note that I corrected that total at the last minute- it would require about 12 times the area that we dedicate to corn, in the US.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  24. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another huge advantage that algae fuels have over solar electric - fuel is an energy storage medium. We can store and ship vast amounts of energy just as with petroleum products. We don't have an inexpensive, safe, clean, and efficient storage method for large amounts of solar or electric power. The storage of electrical energy has always been a shortcoming of wind, solar, and tidal energy sources. But with algae fuels, we can store that solar energy and use it as a fuel when we need it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  25. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s (TEPCO) Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in Japan is currently the world's largest nuclear power plant, with a net capacity of 7,965MW. Kashiwazaki-Kariwa has seven boiling water reactors (BWR) with a gross installed capacity of 8,212MW.Sep 26, 2013

    8 GW x 24Hrs/day and 360 operational days per year yields 69,120 GWHrs, or about 69 TWHrs per year. for the largest reactor ever built.

    130,000 TWhrs/Yr Total demand

    So it would take about 130,000/69 = about 2000 of the biggest nuclear reactors ever built, to satisfy the world's energy demand.

    And that assumes we can fly electric planes and convert the entire energy infrastructure for electric cars and trucks. We don't have the electric grid capacity to support an all-electric world. In many parts the US, the grid is stressed already. Even quark energy wouldn't solve that problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018

Share This Page