Seriously, what is wrong with Christians?

Let me get this straight. Because you believe Jesus is your savior you get to go to Heaven right? And non believers will go to Hell. So your idea of Heaven means looking down on some of your loved ones being tortured FOREVER for simply not believing without a single shred of evidence. And you're just going to say, "Oh, thank you Jesus for torturing my (mother, father, brother, sister, children, etc.)"?

And btw anyone who can find a single bit of evidence for god that cannot be BETTER explained through natural means can pick up their Noble Prize in science immediately.

 

While you have a valid point in there somewhere, making it in this combative and insulting fashion is bound to result in little to no meaningful dialogue. In fact I would not be at all surprised if the thread was locked.

 

OK Prof how would you phrase the question?

Personally I find the entire concept disturbing (to put it mildly). Some people might find it upsetting to be questioned about it. But that does NOT change the fact that its a valid question. It DESERVES to be answered!

 

I must say I agree with the prof. For instance, I have considered becoming a vegetarian, but only when asked in civilized discussion. Anyone trying to guilt trip me into anything would make me less likely to consider.

I believe the question has been posted several times on this forum before. Sure, some of them have also been... vigorous, but there certainly are ways to put it which doesn't sound more like blame than reason for discussion.

 

I DO blame them. And I think they SHOULD feel guilty about it. Is there some reason why they shouldn't? If so I would LOVE to hear it! That's why I wrote the post.

 

Just to be fair- not all Christians believe exactly that- and frankly as long as they aren't lecturing me on how I am going to hell- I really don't care.

Live and let live is all I ask for.

 

How would I phrase it? Maybe like this: "Many Christians believe that those who don't follow the Christian faith will end up suffering in Hell for eternity. Given that most of you probably have at least a few non-Christian friends and family, how do you reconcile your worship of God with the suffering that will be inflicted on people you care about by him?"

But it may be too late to re-phrase it now.

 

It seems to me that a lot of atheists in this forum are more obsessed with the idea of hell than any of the Christians I meet in church. I’ve never ever heard a pastor threaten anybody with hellfire from his pulpit. Then again, I’m from Europe where your ideas about Christians are certainly outdated:

http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/article_universalism_bauckham.html

 

Heh. It's not terribly well thought-out, is it? I think they tend to concentrate a lot more on the thought of watching the people they don't like roast while they sit in comfort, not their loved ones. Their loved ones, probably even including their beloved pets, will all be there with them, watching the neighbors fry with Satan for all those annoying little things they did...

 

Um, yeah, your ideas are pretty far removed from those of American Christians, even today...

 

Sorry, but I'm not quite sure whether I can trust your verdict on American Christians. I reserve some doubts whether idiots like Pat Robertson are representative of the majority of them and I have little doubt you like to think he is.

 

I've been there, Juno. In the fold. You have no idea, apparently.

 

Here's a sample of how its done in the USA. Enjoy!

[video=youtube;RMKD7LgPnH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMKD7LgPnH4[/video]

 

You may think and blame what you want, but that's not really what a forum is for. That's what blogs are for.

If you're looking to gain understanding and/or change people's minds, you'll want to be at least reasonably polite. If you want to annoy people and give people a reason to bad mouth anything they can associate you with, feel free to write what you want.

 

“You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.” Winston Churchhill

 

People in heaven don't worry about people in hell. There's something preventing it.

 

Why does it bother you? The video starts off with a mistranslation of Isaiah 14:9 and gets sillier by the minute. I don’t believe in any of this, so it does not bother me in the slightest.

Granted: the guys who preach such nonsense must have rather sick minds, but some US-weirdo-sects are hardly representative for all of Christianity. Mainstream Protestantism features in the link I gave you, the Eastern Church has always proclaimed universal salvation and these days even Roman Catholics aren’t dwelling on hell that much :
http://www.romancatholicism.org/universal-salvation.htm

 

This post tells me that your faith is a complete fabrication. Whatever you can make up is what works for you.

 

Think its just a fringe element? The Pope has come out and declared that you don't have to be a believer to get into Heaven. Check the average conservative responses to the story:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Pope-Francis-atheist-conscience/2013/09/12/id/525304

 

You lack the imagination to understand what heaven really is. It's not my fault you're so narrow-minded.

 

I didn’t say it was a fringe element. I tried to point you to the fact that it’s not as prominent as you make it out to be.
To begin with the doctrine you outline in your OP (belief in Jesus saves→ this world's non-believers will go to hell) is only found among Protestant denominations. Most Christians are Catholic, quite a lot are Eastern Orthodox and not even all Protestants share this doctrine. That makes it a minority view among Christians.

As for the responses to a newspaper-article: surely you must be aware that a newspapers comments section (a bit like internet forums) tend to attract people with extreme views and don’t necessarily mirror society as it is. And even with that in mind: the handful of (obviously evangelical fundamentalist) guys who criticize the Pope in that comments section of a conservative (!) media outlet hardly count for a veritable (*)(*)(*)(*)storm*.

However: rest assured that I firmly believe that God loves you as much as He loves me. So - with the parable of the lost sheep in mind - I trust that eventually we will all sit on the metaphorical cloud and enjoy eternal bliss. Even Pat Robertson and the rest of the right-wing evangelical ilk, lost as they may be, will probably be found and rescued.

*I’m afraid that may be a German Anglicism – it means: a storm of derogatory comments in the internet.

 

You're ignorant on what most Christians believe 'hell' to be - most don't believe it's a 'literal' place of torture, most believe the 'torture' is metaphorical for a feeling of separation from God

Most Christians don't believe that just saying "I believe in Jesus" is an instant ticket to heaven either

 

"Imagination" huh? You're not exactly refuting the idea that you're fabricating things.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would be interested to see if theres any figures backing up the idea that the majority of Christians believe that. It's an interesting proposition - I already feel separated from God, so am I already in Hell? If this is as bad as it gets, why would I care if I go to hell? As a side note, it renders Pascal's wager dead in the water before we even need refute it.

 

So you think that because you do not believe it that will change the outcome? Is that correct?