Should a rapist be punished more if he takes her virginity?

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by kazenatsu, Jul 23, 2022.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think one big part of the reason conservatives believe rapists should get more punishment than progressives do is because, in a progressive's mind, they assume a woman has already had sex with many men, or will with many men to come. That is the normal thing in their circles.

    I think most people will agree that a man who rapes a prostitute should get less punishment than if he raped an ordinary woman. Why is that? Because, aside from the physical assault, the man is not really doing anything to her that has not been done to her before. I mean the sexual aspect. She's already had sex with hundreds of strange men she didn't really know and wasn't very choosy about. One more isn't that terribly big of a deal, when viewed from that perspective.

    There is a gulf of difference between the perspective of conservatives and those of progressives. Should perhaps rapists receive more punishment if he has taken the girl's virginity? Especially if she comes from social circles where she is likely to try to save her virginity until marriage. (And not even just virgins, but perhaps married women, if they have never had sex with any other man besides their husband before)

    It's true there may be some problematic issues with courts trying to determine whether she is a virgin, but there are several indicators that can be used to determine whether that's probably the case, and of course we would have to rely on the information from the woman too. (I don't think most women will lie about this. Most women to whom virginity is not a big deal will be satisfied as long as the rapist gets punished with many years in prison) In fact, I think many judges already do this, informally. They secretly take it into account in factoring the sentence. But maybe we should more overtly codify it into law.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  2. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A rapist should go to prison until it can be verified that he is no longer a violent threat to peaceable society, regardless of any other factors. Any violent recidivism should be met with automatic LWOP.
     
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    O.M.G
     
  4. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Are rapists punished today .. ? How so ? Seems that they are out on parole before the trial is over .
     
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But that's not how progressives roll. In some progressive parts of Europe, like Sweden and the Netherlands, the typical prison sentence for a normal rape is 4 years. In Germany, it is around 9 years. In California, the maximum sentence for normal rape is 8 years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
  6. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    If so, you have the war on drugs to thank for that. We just can't afford to lock up enough people to make the right wing happy.
     
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  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are you so surprised about? Conservatives believe rapists should get far much more prison time than progressives do.
    I simply suggested an idea for compromise. Use virginity status and sexual history of the victim as a factor. It does kind of seem to make sense. How much time a person believes rapists should be sentenced to is very likely correlated to their views about sexuality.

    Plus we all know that a girl is much more likely to be more traumatized if the rape was her first sexual experience than another who's been around the block.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    raping a child should be a lwop sentence, why republicans think a "list" is good enough is beyond me

    list of people so dangerous they need to be on a list? really? they should be removed from society.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    It's not beyond you because you're the one that fabricated that.
     
  10. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Men can be raped by men in terms of forced anal sex. Indeed Kevin Spacey is facing charges for doing that in the United Kingdom.
    Rape is mainly, but not exclusively, male on female.
     
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  11. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why you think the bolded part is true, is beyond me. I have never seen anyone advocate for that, and would call them out if I had.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
  12. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get this particular illusion? I hope that you have some hard data to back this assertion up because it is ack basswards from reality. In fact given the reactions in the past, it would seem to me that liberals are more prone to automatically believe the woman victim and call for the immediate social execution of the supposed rapist, as well as the more conventional punishments, even despite evidence to the contrary.

    You would be wrong.

    The number of people one has sex with has nothing to do with whether or not one is forced against their consent and will into the act of sex. Your logic would mean that a person who assaults a boxer should get less punishment than one who assaults a non-boxer because the boxer has already been beaten up by hundreds of strange men and wasn't very choosy about it. One more isn't that terribly big of a deal when viewed from that perspective.

    In a era where virginity was a paramount thing, this might be a viable idea. That was, of course, an era when marriage was more of a business deal or political action than about love. Women were a commodity and chattel back then. But in today's world, especially when remarriage, either from divorce or widowhood, is commonplace, virginity has no real impact on such relationships, except for shallow people who are more worried about the what over the who.

    Rape is a violent crime save maybe the statutory rape of two teens near of age but on opposite sides of the legal line. No matter what the person does regularly in their life, no act should be forced upon them with out their consent and cooperation. Rape is not about sex, it's about power and causing harm, physical and/or mental and/or emotional, to the victim. That crime stands no matter what one's virginial status is.
     
  13. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The amount of time that is the current standards is a red herring to the topic at hand, except when making comparisons between different factors, such as the woman's virginial state at the time of the rape. Even then, at point right now is whether certain conditions should elicit more or less punishments than others, not what those specific punishments are.
     
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  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the list was due to prison crowding caused by the war on drugs - I say end the war on drugs and give the child rapists lwop, do you agree?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  15. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agree 100%. I've just never heard of what you are talking about, and certainly never heard such an idea advocated by anyone on the right.

    My position has been stated here dozens of times. Prison systems should be wholly focused on segregating the violent from our peaceable society. Crimes with no victim should never result in loss of liberty.
     
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  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we agree
     
  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rubbish. The bold suggests you're the one making assumptions about women. Nobody in their right mind judges the severity of a rape on the basis of the assumed or even actual sexual history of the victim. In many situations, that kind of thing is no longer admissible in court, often against the wishes of some "conservatives", who seem to think that dressing or behaving in certain ways can mean a rape victim was "asking for it".

    Nobody in their right mind...

    That'd be like saying crashing in to a beat up car, robbing someone who is careless with their possessions and keeps loosing things anyway, defrauding someone who falls for an obvious con or beating a boxer to unconsciousness are less serious crimes.

    What if the rapist is her husband? Or doesn't that count as rape in your world anyway?
     
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  18. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not completely. I would like you to substantiate your assertion that republicans support a list in lieu of incarceration for child rapists.

    My observation has been exactly the opposite; that it is democrats who generally are soft on criminals, not republicans.
     
  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we agree enough, I am happy with that... progress
     
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  20. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You introduced a partisan dig, one that was false and unnecessary IMHO, and I must call you out on it.

    Do you truly believe that republicans favor a list in lieu of incarceration for child rapists, as you asserted? If so, please support that assertion.
     
  21. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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  22. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it's dangerous to make to much specific cases in laws. It's also hard if not impossible to verify.

    I'm not sure that it's better to rape a prostitute than an ordinary woman. We could still claim that an ordinary woman has a better chance to recover because they will more likely experience a normal environnement and could "heal". Furthermore, it has to be remembered that a lot of prostitutes are foreigners/come from dysfunctionnal houses/might have been more likely abused. I consider prostitution as disgusting in a global manner.

    Without agreeing too much with people having too much sexual partners, I'm not sure either it's a good idea to over sacralize virginity. Especially when considering that "honor" crimes are a thing (probably rarer in USA, let's hope at least).

    I'm not sure either of the first consideration (progressive thinking that rapist deserve less punishement, I would be curious if you have proof about that).

    The last point is because of a lot of virgin are minors, the rapist are likely to have harsher sentences anyway.
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do believe that, as many do, but you and I agree, that is enough for me, we good Hotdogr
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Still O.M.G
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's interesting, FreshAir. Could your views on this have something unconsciously to do with virginity?
    After all, a "child" is innocent, has never had sex with anyone before. A "woman" (you presume) had already had sex. Probably with several people. (Well either that or she's unattractive and nobody wants to have sex with her)

    Question to you. Which rapist should be punished more?

    The one who rapes a 22-year-old who was saving herself for her future husband whom she would someday marry. She has avoided even kissing another guy.

    Or the one who raped a 15 year old girl. But that girl was well known to have gone around in that neighborhood sleeping with older guys, 16, 17, 18 year olds. Her last boyfriend in fact was a 23 year old. By her own recollection, she lost track of how many guys she had slept with, but it is over twenty of them. She had already had two abortions. Oh, she has 3 different STD infections too. The girl's mother complains her daughter dresses like a hooker.
     

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