Should a woman who has repeated abortions have her uterus privileges taken away?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to be making the assumption that a woman has the right to abortion if her birth control fails.

    That she has a right to have vaginal sex with absolutely no risk whatsoever of pregnancy and resulting childbirth.


    Sometimes a woman might be able to "catch" it if it's early enough, but often time that doesn't happen, and then it can really be too late for abortion (or should be too late).
    So even if we say that abortion is allowed, say for example, at 3 weeks, there could still exist a risk she might have to deal with a pregnancy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely she has that right

    not her choice to become pregnant
     
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Her choice to engage in activity that could result in her being pregnant.


    To completely eliminate all risk in the connection between sex and pregnancy, we would have to give up rights of the fetus at more advanced stages of pregnancy, and it would leave the door open to wanton abuse by certain women.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Engaging in sex does not equal consent to become pregnant
     
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We've been over this. There is such a thing as effective consent.

    For example, if you commit a bank robbery, you do not willingly "consent" to going to prison, but in some sense you do.

    The fact that sex is not a crime is irrelevant. The same analogy still applies.

    If you have reckless sex, and then have an abortion, you have committed a wrong against another human being.

    The abortion is the thing that's really wrong, but the fact you had the sex which resulted in the situation only aggravates it.

    If the woman does this again and again and again, she becomes a habitual aborter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No there is not

    https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/effective-consent
     
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  7. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Worth noting that those who are OPPOSED to women's reproductive rights appear to AVOID doing any actual research and EDUCATING themselves on the topic that they pontificate about.

    It is almost as if they are ALLERGIC to KNOWLEDGE.

    The introduction of AFFORDABLE birth control via Obamacare has seen a significant decline in both abortions and child births. Studies show that Reversible contraceptives, which are the most expensive, reduced UNINTENDED pregnancies and abortions by 40% among the highest at risk groups.

    The OP would have a SMIDGEON of credibility if he was ADVOCATING for making Reversible contraception FREE to those women that he wants to DEPRIVE of their IMAGINARY "uterus privileges".

    But we all know that will never happen because IGNORANCE is the hammer that is being wielded to advance the misogynistic agenda running through ALL of these threads and posts.
     
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  8. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I get that, but the actions must be equivalent. I noted earlier in the thread, that an action to cause pregnancy is not equivalent to an action to end pregnancy (before term). Otherwise, you end up causing to be illegal, the very actions that causes wanted pregnancies as well as unwanted pregnancies.

    I understand that. Although not an equivalent action to abortion, it is an act that is done without the consent of the other (not limited to women, since a man can stealth with another man as we). So I'm good with that being illegal (logistically hard to prove, but in principle at least), although not for the same reasons as would be for abortion, assuming I supported the illegality of that.
     
  9. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Given that there seemed to be a lean towards the idea of the male being forced into such birth control (to counter the OP's position), currently the only reliable and (albeit only recently and not reliably) reversible form is the vasectomy for men. Apologies if you were being more broad, and I missed it.

    That being said, I don't think that birth control is the only factor in the reduction of abortions, which would be at least partially due to a reduction of unwanted pregnancies. So there would probably have to be at least a second factor of better sex education classes, which is often touted as a reason for less unwanted pregnancies. And not just due to the education on birth control. As I understand it, many of these programs (not abstinence only programs) are teaching girls that they don't have to "give it up" just to be like. Self respect vs the guilt of abstinence only programs. I'm willing to bet that there are even more factors in the reduction of abortions that we've seen since RvW was decided than just "reliable reversible birth control".
     
  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Point of order.

    While I understand that current medical knowledge and technology will cause the two to be one in the same, I want to know what you are considering an "abortion". Is it the termination of the pregnancy regardless of whether the ZEF lives or dies, or must an abortion include the termination of the ZEF? IOW, should the medical knowledge and technology rise to a level where the ZEF could be transferred out of the women into another gestation source (another woman or an artificial womb, or something else), would that still be an abortion? Again, I understand that currently the termination of a pregnancy, if not due to, will result in the termination of the ZEF. I want to know if you feel that the term "abortion" is reliant upon that termination of the ZEF.
     
  11. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    @kazenatsu still waiting on an example of something about my body that is a privilege, and not a right.

     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Why?

    I have never indicated that humans are not responsible for their own actions....YOU are fishing/trolling.???



    LOL, you are twisting, stretching ,desperately trying to make some kind of point …

    "I find that people who are against abortion typically don't like spinach..."


    Again, this is the Abortion Forum....discussing All Aspects of Life should be in another forum
     
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  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    That isn't an assumption, that is a FACT....too bad for you but women have those rights, must be very aggravating and frustrating for you but they do....

    AND YOU have NEVER proven they don't have those rights :) :) :)....




    What TF are you going on about? Abortion is legal beyond three weeks....:) :) :) :)
     
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  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you don't seem to catch on.

    Consent to one act is not consent to any other act....



    ;) "We've been over this"....there is no othetr human being involved...

    To YOU but NOT to everyone...





    The old, "women should be punished for having sex " thing LOL





    No crime against that....
     
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  15. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    When a principle is brought up, such as a person gets to make their own decisions regarding their own bodies, then it is not improper to see if a person holds that principle consistently or piecemeal.
     
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    If it does NOT pertain to abortion then it does not belong in the Abortion Forum....if you have personal questions, start another thread in another forum....I will not , for instance, give you my address...so don't keep stalking/harassing me with an off topic personal question....that has nothing to do with abortion...
     
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  17. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Despite what the other two say, I agree with you that consent to sex is indeed consent to the potential of pregnancy. However, using that same principle, consent to participate in sports is consent to the potential of broken bones. In the same manner that, just because you broke a bone doesn't mean that you have to leave it broken, getting pregnant doesn't mean that you have to remain pregnant. The others are making the leap in a single step, but in the end the breakdown into two steps still results in the same conclusion.
     
  18. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You can always refuse to respond to what you consider off-topic posts.
     
  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I can IF I CHOOSE.......I can also report harassing posts that repeat the same off topic question.
     
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  20. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you consider it off topic does not mean that others agree with you that it is off topic. I feel that it is on topic, or at the least topic related. Your opinion and my opinion on that can both be valid. They are opinions after all.

    Also note that I am not harassing you to answer the question. I've not asked you to answer the question since the first time. We have discussed about whether or not the question is on topic and why we believe it to be so or not so, as well as the basis behind my asking the question. But I've not asked you a second time to state your position.
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We've been over this before. Your argument there is totally a moot point there, since it seems to be addressing a much more underlying fundamental argument rather than the specific argument at hand.

    Saying "there is no other life involved" is not an argument to every pro-life argument; it's a specific argument of its own.
    (And yes, of course pro-lifers do ultimately have to make that argument or all the other arguments are useless, but that does not mean it's appropriate for you to attempt to use it as a response against every pro-life argument, since what you are actually doing is just trying to change the topic)

    "I can't win this specific argument, so I'm going to attempt to change the argument"

    Continuing to claim "there is no other life" is basically you conceding that you've lost the argument, and admitting that your opponent would be correct, if indeed that other life did exist.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    WHO said, "there is no other life involved" ?


    I didn't.

    So who are you addressing????????????????

    Or are into your "I'll make something up because I have no good argument or point " mode?


    No, the fact that a fetus is not a human BEING as in legal person is totally on point even if Anti-Choicers deny it.



    No, that would be YOUR MO.....like starting threads about make believe "uterus privileges". :)


    Except I never said that and like all your other claims , you CANNOT prove I did...
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, I miswrote. I meant you said "there is no other human being involved".


    You certainly seem to get stuck up on semantics, which I suppose could be important here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    It is NOT "semantics"...it is FACTS and truthful quoting....you do have some idea of what "truthful quoting" is, don't you?????????

    You do know it IS "important" ? Don't you?

    Words matter.


    You just can't make things up and expect to have a point or an argument...
     
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  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What if you had to hurt someone else to fix your broken bone?

    And not only that, but can we really compare a pregnancy to a broken bone?
    In the case of a broken bone, it really needs to be fixed. Terminating a pregnancy is generally something much more elective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020

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