Should Muslims convert or?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Canell, Dec 27, 2018.

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Should Muslims convert to other belief systems?

  1. Yes, to Christianity

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. Yes, to Buddism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Yes, to Hinduism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Yes, to Judaism

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. Yes, to Confucianism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Yes, other religion

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  7. Yes, to science / atheism

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  8. Anything but Islam!

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%
  9. No, they are fine

    9 vote(s)
    21.4%
  10. No, you just can't force them out of Islam

    7 vote(s)
    16.7%
  11. No, it is you that should convert to Islam, infidel!!

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%
  12. Other

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The statement I made was Much of the SS, not all of them.
    I even pointed out they would be mostly Christian from a Christian country.
    Hitlers War against the Jews was from 1933 to 1945, and he had complete control of the media.
    BTW, There is a book I read years ago, "Hitlers war against the Jews", 1933 to 1945.

    The Catholic church has always been against the Jews, even so far as to alter the commands of the church against them,
    They blamed the Jews for killing Jesus.


    And I will emphasize, Again, Germany was a mostly Christian country, so most of the military would be Christian.


    Any your hatred of Christians shows because you pointed out a time when the Muslims were still pushed back into the ME, where they were for 200 years.
    Any other point in history the Muslims would have a higher kill ratio.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  2. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Much of the SS over 75% were Christians in 1938, so it turns your statement of "much of the SS were not Christians" on its head.
    Now show me where I say I hate Christians, you are simply making stuff up again.
    And do not blame just Catholics, Luther wrote "on the Jews and their lies"
    On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und iren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.

    Luther's attitude toward the Jews took different forms during his lifetime. In his earlier period, until 1537 or not much earlier, he wanted to convert Jews to Lutheranism (Protestant Christianity), but failed. In his later period when he wrote this particular treatise, he denounced them and urged their persecution
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

    And do not blame just Germany or the military, for the Holocaust to happen as it did, it was required that there was a deep rooted antisemitism across Europe and that came from Christianity.

    As I said Islam is no worse or better than any of the Abrahamic faiths.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  3. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Actually I am not going to argue your points, and I do agree with them.\
    You bring up good points, and I respect that.

    I still stand on my attitude that Islam is far worse than the other two, mainly for the behavior of the main characters,
    And the orders in Islam to emulate muhammed.
    Which is happening, mostly in Europe and the ME.
    Also while Christianity and Judism is descriptive in their religious writings, of times past.
    Islam is prescriptive in theirs, calling for action in the future.

    Looking at world events, we don't see a lot of Christians and Jews going out blowing themselves
    up with others, screaming religious chants while doing it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  4. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The Jews have some nasty sh-t written into their religion over 2000 years ago,
    Also much of it was written when they were being slaughtered by the good Romans and Christians,
    so they wrote some bad sh-t about them.

    The Christians picked up the book and changed the rules.
    There are only 2 or 3 controversial verses in The Christian bible and nobody knows who wrote them.
    also they go against the teachings of Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  5. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion it is just who has the best opportunity, within Islam the opportunity for extremist doctrine is prevalent at the moment, same goes for the Ultra Orthodox Jews in Israel at the moment. Christians are on the back burner, possibly they have worn themselves out with all the blood letting in the last two centuries. But what I do think is that the danger is there in any of the faiths with the texts from scripture to back up the rebellious nutter. That said by far and away the majority of people in any faith that I have met have been perfectly reasonable people and I have met lots of all faiths.
     
  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    no rules were changed by Christians. Pretending the old testament isn't part of the Christian bible is quite silly.
     
  7. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    This is where I point out that Christianity is different than when it was marching through the world conquering places.
    The Christians were at the mercy of their leaders for what God wanted.
    Many couldn't read and write, Catholism was in Latin anyway.
    nobody had bibles until around the 17th century, and there were few then.

    Now Christians can all read their bibles, and say, sorry, God doesn't want us doing that.
    Killing is wrong.
    The religion points out the err in their ways.

    Islam is different in that if you read it, God wants you to go out robbing and killing.

    Just because the religion orders it, will produce a higher percentage of people who actually do it.
     
  8. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Actually Christ brought in stuff like
    Love thy enemy.
    Casting the first stone.
    turn the other cheek, stuff like that.

    They are no longer doing stuff like Duteronomy and Leviticus.

    You have the Old Covenant, and the New Covenant.


    In all the writings of Jesus, he never robbed anyone, raped anyone, hurt anyone, killed anyone,

    Muhammed did all of those.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  9. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Jesus specifically said that the old law is not abolished.
    because some choose not to, because it suits them. jesus said he did not abolish the old law.
    the new covenant doesn't negate the old.
     
  10. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    That is one of the controversial verses.
    The old laws were 613 laws of Moses.
    I grew up in a hard core Protestant environment, and we were never taught, or even told about the laws of Moses.

    We had the ten commandments, from Moses, that's all.


    and it doesn't negate the old, just changes the rules, and morals.
    The Old covenant is pretty much a history book of times past.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  11. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    because everyone has their own interpretation, and everyone ignores the parts of their holy books which conflict with their intentions.

    this doesn't change the fact that jesus specifically says he didn't abolish the old law.
     
  12. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    I can't think of any Christian sect that dwells on the laws of Moses.
    Not to say there aren't any, they sure are underground.
    Even the Jews, who wrote them have evolved.
     
  13. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    This is also where I make comparisons,
    First that is in Mathew, and nobody knows who wrote it..

    Then it is one of very few verses that can be classified as evil, or controversial.

    We compare these 3 or so verses with Islam, that has hundreds of verses,
    graphic descriptions of robbery, torture, murder.
    An entire storyline in several books, and hundreds of verses.

    You just cannot equalize the two.
     
  14. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok I do not think we are that far apart in our views, but I could point to the Lordes Army in Africa or the disgusting attacks on "Child Witches" in Nigeria.
     
  15. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Kony of the "Lords resistance army" is rejected by every Christian church.
    Just saying you are Christian doesn't cut it.
    There are certain requirements.


    I haven't read about the child witches. but I suspect they are more cultural, or old religion, than newly religious.

    Religion is a hard thing to take from a person,
    You can't turn it off like a light switch, and bring in a new one.
    Usually the religions are merged at first.

    Caribbean VooDoo, is a good example of that.
    Part islander, and part Catholic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  16. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry but the Isis Fiqh al-dima is rejected by just about every Islamic scholar, so to say the Lords Army is rejected by the churches just does not work. They wish to rule by the Ten Commandments and the fact that Christians include culture etc in their religion in no way excuses the crimes then committed. This is the problem of most religion, it can be interpreted in the most disgusting ways.

    Edit If you wish to read about the Child Witches and the Pentecostal movement amongst others here is a good article.
    https://theconversation.com/whats-behind-children-being-cast-as-witches-in-nigeria-57021
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  17. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The leader of ISIS is an Islamic scholar, and he is mimicking the adventures of Muhammed.
    Trying to establish a Caliphate the same way they were always done, by conquest.
    I don't know his preaching, so I can hardly say anything about it.

    It appears to largely function as a personality cult of its leader Joseph Kony,[11] a self-declared prophet whose leadership has earned him the nickname "Africa's David Koresh".[13]
     
  18. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    It seems the Child witches are a result of the previous cultural/religious practices.

    It also is earning money for the preachers to get rid of them.

    This backward jungle people can hardly be used as examples of Christianity.
    They have a long way to go.

    I am not sticking up for Christianity, it is still a back words, bronze age cult, but one followed by many.
    And I still say, for people who need a sky daddy, it is the better of the three.
     
  19. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quoting another Christian nutter does not help, Koresh believed he was Christian and so do his followers.
    The leader of Isis is an Islamic Schooler but his interpretations are still rejected, just as some Christians like Koresh are rejected. As I said the oportunity for Radical Islam to prevail exists now, but so does the awful Ultra Jewish doctrines in Israel at the moment.

    Guard against all religious fundamentalism is my moto.
     
  20. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And there we are, education and relief from poverty are the way forward, the deeper the ignorance and poverty the easier for religious nutters to gain credence.
     
  21. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The big problem here is that, as you pointed out, the Christian text needs to be interpreted , and can be wrong.

    The Islamic text needs no interpretation, it is written plain as day.
    IF you get out of the Qur'an.

    The Qur'an in a nightmare of stories beginning and ending sporadically, You need a knowledge of abrogation's,
    chronology, Mecca and Medina differences.

    But the Sunnah is plain as day, it needs no interpretation, and that is where Muhammed is.

    and Islam, as is written, is radical.


    Keep in mind, most muslims have never even read the Sunnah, and their only exposure is the Qur'an.
    Be a good muslim, read your Qur'an, don't make waves or we will kill you.

    A fast talking cleric can turn the religion into anything he wants, using only the Qur'an.

    It is not interpretation as much as manipulation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  22. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does not matter if you are killed because of an interpretation of a religious text or the core text itself, and nothing shows me that those killing in the name of Christianity or Islam are any less likely to believe in it as "gospel". I will support the first religion that the god simply states "do not kill in my name, ever!"
     
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Does the biblical fairy tale specifically state that women will get into the golden cube?
     
  24. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    ???????????
     
  25. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Here again is the comparison of the two.
    We have far more people killing screaming Allah Ackbar, than we do killing and reciting the lords prayer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019

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