Should the Government Provide Free Universal Health Care for All Americans?

Public goods aewnt some left wing invention. They simply exist, reflecting the nature of goods and how market failure will develop. Those that argue against the provision of such goods assuredly fall into 2 camps: free riders (as they attempt to take advantage of any private provision without contributing) or those confused by basic economics. Whatever the rationale any underprovision that they insist on woiuld have one indisputable result: a well-being deadweight loss that we are all forced to pay.

 

I'm not really sure why you would measure performance based upon an isolated expense. A more valid way to measure it is how much appropriate health care is delivered per dollar. I don't have time to stat check right now, but while medicare might have fraud, private insurance companies have profit. The problem with private insurance companies is that any savings go not towards health, but rather towards profit. Overhead is also lower in medicare. Again though, I don't think medicare perfect, but it helps when it's not a for-profit model. And where medicare does get intertwined with profit, efficiency of healthcare delivery per dollar goes down. For example, Medicare Advantage.

Do I think profit is always a bad thing? No. But in most of the economy profit and benefit are less at odds with each other than in healthcare. Insurance companies make profit by NOT having to cover care, whereas in other sectors companies make profit by making a good product or service that people want.

There's no context that claim, and you're the one who made that one. Denial can be based upon the procedure being covered by private insurance (cost shifting), can be based upon the procedure being inappropriate, or a variety of things. Are people's quality and quantity of life being significantly undermined by these "denials?" Unless you demonstrate that it doesn't tell me anything.

Well for patients and taxpayers that's good. I don't see doctors begging in the streets.

 

Don't quite know who or what you are specifically referring to but if "market" based health care is so good, the deaths of 45,000 Americans per year or 900,000 in the past 20 years readily refutes that.

 

{{"" Loans and military aid are to different things. Israel's foreign debt is about $84 billion while the USA has given it over $100 billion. Without that money it would have gone bankrupt years ago and not paid for its universal health coverage.""}}

I believe you might be the one behind the times at the moment, Iraq has overtaken Israel as the largest annual recipient of U.S. aid since 2003.

{{""[II] "pro- death" - Republicans are pro death. Stay out of that part of the world and we'll have no such problems. After all your friends in Israel killed are more of them than anyone else.""}}

Since the Democommies are the ones that pushed the abortion bill and lied 6 ways to Sunday about how many women dide every year from back ally abortions and screem any time someone mentions dtriming it down, I would say you Dems own it. Since it has cost over 100 million American Lives I would say the Democommies are the party of death in this nation. It has been mainly Democommies that have pushed this government to stop funding Israel and let the Arabs over run them and keep encouraging the Arabs to kill.

What was the body count your friends keep running on the web as the Gulf war went on, the last count of Arabs the U.S. was suppost to habve killed was somewhere around 120,000.


{{""[III] I was in the tax field both in government and private industry. Not personal business. Look up the tax code for further details on deductions""}}

Then you know NOTHING about being an employer. So here we go. First, you have to have the funds on hand or borrow them for the payroll. That means you have to have better that 1 1/2 the amount paid to each employee on hand because the other over 50% is what you will pay for that employee in state and federal taxes. Next, you have to have the money on hand or borrow it to buy the materials you need for the job. Just to show you what I'm talking about, last year I was running a crew of 14 people, the payroll was over $26,000 a week, the material we were using for the job cost $260,000, and my boss was making $3.00 an hour per person. Now, above and beyond what I have put here my boss was paying over $8.00 an hour in health and retirement to the union and 5 different stae and federal taxes. Every body that runs a small business knoiws that if you don't have 6 months of capital on hand your going to either be in debit up to your neck or go out of business. And that thing you have in the White House wants to place higher taxes on anything over $250,000??? And you know just as well as I do, any sub chapter S corparatrion has to claim any and all moneies left as PERSONAL income.

{{""[IV] Re your heroine Sanger, see my posts about Rockefeller, Bush, and Gamble - all Republicans who financed her. This is documented FACT.""}}

Like I said, she died in 1966, Cre., and that has been more than 40 years ago. I don't know who funded her and could care less what she did. It was the Democommies that ramed abortion through 7 years later, not her.

{{"
[V] "Democommies" - once again you condemn others for ''name calling'' but keep repeating the same hate filled name calling nonsense. Stop being a hypocrite""}}

Your the one that started it and I told you that if you wanted to play that game fine, we both could. And here's the reason I call Democrats, Democommies;

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

And how many times have I heard this from the left since the 1960's?

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

And this was a good one;

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

And we say this tried in 2000;

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

And way we go;

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

They captured one alright, and it starts with a D;

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

And what an exposion of this one;

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

And there is more;

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

Care to start dating all of these, Cre.?

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

And if you were around you saw all this take place;

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

This one has about been fulfilled;

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

The date was 1962, Cre.;

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

All of these have been pushed since the late 60's by your party, Cre.;

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

And isn't this what Obama has been trying to do????;

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

These have already been done;

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

And if you would bother to open your eyes this has been pushed for the last 30 years and still is;
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

And have you heard anything like this said in the last 25 years??;

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

1999, Carter and Clinton and who controls it now?? The Red Chinese;

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

And as his dying act as President, Clinton signed this but Congress refused to ratify it;

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.



Do I feel the name Democommie fits?? If their agendas are the same, what's the difference???

 

Let's see, because when I was in school I was told what an idiot I was and how I would never amount to anything. Funny, my young wife was able to do in one year what the school system couldn't do in 9 1/2 years. Plus, don't you think all you out there with the diplomas should be smarter than me??? Shouldn't you be able to excel above and beyond anything a high school drop out can or could do???? Come on, you can't make it with out a sheep skin and Government handouts so how did I???

Next, why would you think that you are incapable of doing the same thing I did??? Why do you think that you need handout from the rest of us???

Did you ever hear of motavation??? What is the motivation for new products in medicine? and perscription drugs?? PROFIT!!! With out that forget it, it's not going to happen.


There's no context that claim, and you're the one who made that one. Denial can be based upon the procedure being covered by private insurance (cost shifting), can be based upon the procedure being inappropriate, or a variety of things. Are people's quality and quantity of life being significantly undermined by these "denials?" Unless you demonstrate that it doesn't tell me anything.



Insurance companies make profits and where do those pofits go??? Share holders and who are the largest percent of share holders in the market place???? Retired people, that's right, your mom and pop or grandparents make up 70% of the people that are in the stock market.

California had 5 hospitals in the 60's, not for profit, where are they today??? Enough said?

Overhead in Medicare runs around 6% where in private companies it's 13%. But the private companies aren't forking over 90 billion dollars a year in fraudulent claims of my money either. Maybe medicare should look into hiring a few more people and save a lot more of my and your money.

And just so you know, we use a Nurse practitoner and I make as much if not more a year than she does.

 

Considering that the Clinton bill would have taken another 13% at lest out of my check, I believe what Obama is proposing will be more like 18 to 20%. NO THAN YOU!!!!


{{""Is it because you hate poor people so much?""}}

Of all the outlandish things to say to me. Mister, I have worked for a living since I was 15 years old. I have scrimped and saved to get what I have got today and NOBODY gave me a hoand out or a hand up. And like I said, that's with a 9th grade education and if I can do it on my own with that little why can't the likes of you??? And, Buddy, my skin isn't exactly lilly white.

Government health care 40% more efficient?? Where did you pul that figure out of, ....hold, don't tell us. I was in the sevice and "Saw" your 40% more efficient. My father went to the V.A. hospital for his needs. I "saw" your 40% more efficient. My mother is on medicare, I "see" your 40% more efficient every time she has to go to the doctor or hospital. I have "private health care" and wouldn't trade it for all your so called "Government efficiency". The only thing the government has proven itself efficient at is spending money.

 

quoting beenthere:

Iraq has overtaken Israel as the largest annual recipient of U.S. aid since 2003

Not on point but one should be reminded that charity begins at home, not overseas. There is nothing in the Constitution about nation building and conservatives conveniently ignore that Truth.


Democommies are the ones that pushed the abortion bill

Margaret Sanger and her financiers Rockefeller, Prescott Bush, and Clarence Gamble were all RepubliCONs. The Supreme Court which legalized abortion were all RepubliCON majority. You RepubliCONs are the biggest political murderers anywhere. Yet, you persist in projecting your actions unto everyone else. As an independent voter, I know this Truth and am not afraid of saying so.


you know NOTHING about being an employer

Told you already that I have never been one. But I gave you the reference from the government which clearly shows those costs are deductible on your tax return.


Democommies that ramed abortion through 7 years later, not her

As I wrote before, the majority of the Supreme Court in Roe was RepubliCON. Care to make a bet? Let's do so: if I can prove they were RepubliCON, you leave the forum. If you prove the majority were Dems, I leave. Deal?

Democommies

Your use of that name precedes my entry into the forum. The world "*******" has been widely used here by others as well. It is you far right delusionals who began with the name calling. Bu trust me, I have a large encyclopedia of epithets that I can readily use.


Soviets

See my earlier reference to CONSERVATIVE Anthony Sutton and his study on how RepubliCONs financed Bolsheviks.

Recognition of China

That was done by RepubliCON Nixon.

There rest of your delusional spiel were all done by your party, not by Dems or by independents like me.

Keep trying as I find your ravings to be highly amusing.

 

This is an issue which is far more complicated than either side would like to admit. Everyone tries to make one good talking point and completely fails to miss the big picture.

I know the elephant is like a snake!! said the blind man.

Everything started changing with healthcare a long time ago when health insurance came into the picture. It changed even more when for profit interest started to dominate the industry. It has all turned into a twisted mess of profit, ethics and real human needs and rights. Left to its own free market devices it is likely the whole thing will collapse. In the hands of the government it is likely to balloon into another (hopefully not catastrophic) national economic crisis. Take your pick.

 

It works in Europe, UK, Israel, Japan, and Canada. It can work just as easily here if we applied the same model they have.

As for ethics/profits/cost or other considerations, the loss of 45,000 Americans every year (a total of 900,000 over the past 20 years), this is a blood tax, a cost we as a society cannot afford.

 

This is optimistic. The US healthcare industry is controlled by for profit industry and funds most of the worlds research and development. Most, but certainly not all, healthcare breakthroughs (even in foreign nations) have happened due to the high level of profitability afforded by our system. This gives an ethical argument to the lobbyist who work for the for profit interest. Which creates a huge economic burden for US health insurance companies. If they fail a government controlled health system will be left shouldering that cost. Unfortunately the US is not a generic case when it comes to this issue.

 

Healthcare is going to go through some hard times even though healthcare reform is necessary. This is one of those funny issues which I think even the Republicans will fall in line with despite their rhetoric. Our current system cannot survive without government assistance. I assume the conservative compromise will be to put more of the financial burden on consumers, but observing republican solutions I am not even sure of that. I live in Florida and we have state health insurance called "Choices" which was created by a republican governor and has held despite another republican governor. It is for low income workers (you have to be employed) and is very cheap and better than most employer provided health insurance. I make too much money to use it but I have family who does. I think most republicans understand the reality, they just play to public prejudice for votes.

 

I'm not sure why you think somebody arguing for single payer is looking for a handout. I'm not poor. I just want people to have healthcare available when they need it, and I want it provided efficiently, like the rest of the developed world.

Well I can see what gave you the wrong impression but I was talking about health insurance. Single payer would only get rid of private health insurance, not manufacturers. Health insurance really doesn't contribute anything that a non-profit government cannot.

That's about equivalent to me saying that the fraud is supporting somebody - maybe even somebody who didn't commit the fraud. Profit is a good thing when the method of gaining that profit also does something good for society beyond the shares.

I can agree with that last sentence. Investigating fraud in medicare has been found to be cost-effective.

 

Hmm, that is a very simplistic view towards healthcare breakthrus. When considor the socialised system takes a percentage of a entire nations GDP. Such level of funding produces 'breakthrus' in all kinds of medicines and technologies.

 

{{""]I don't believe that you make over a million dollars a year. Not to mention the Obama bill reduces total health care costs meaning overall you'll be paying less for health care.""}}

To start with, Obama said $250,000 a year, not a million and no, I don't make $250,000 a year but my boss does, or should I say, he has to claim that because he has a Sub Chapter S Corporation. Now, the more the Government makes him pay, the less he has to pay us. Does this compute??? Medial care is 1/6 of the economy. How's your math??? Not very good??? 1/6th is 18% more he would have to put out on each employee and would cut down what he would have to work with so the less emplyees he could hire. Now, does that compute??? The more any employer puts out the smaller the work force he can hire.

And just HOW would it cut medical costs???? There is only two ways to cut medical costs and that's to pay less or ration care. End of story. Go ahead, cut what you pay the medical field and see how many less dotors, hospitals, and nurses you will have.

{{""Yes so why do you propose making yourself poorer in order to make poorer people even more poor?""}}

What utter nonsense, while our 6 childern were at home (are you supporting 6 children, Sta.???) I made between $15,000 to $35,000 a year, boy, that made me RICH didn't it. O.K., shall we run the numbers??? I will retire soon and here's the way the numbers run, $98. a month apiece for Medicare part B. For round numbers let's just say $100 apiece for my wife and I. That makes $200 a month. But you need supplementle insurance with that and the best I can get for the money is through my union. And Sta., because of the hours I have in that comes out to around $300 apiece. Just to keep the math simple for you, that's $600 a month to the Union Insurance and $200 a month to Medicare which comes to a grand total of $800 a month or, (because I know you can't add very well) $9,600 a year. With that there is a deductable of around $100 a year so we will be putting out $10,700 a year for medical bills AND perscriptoins. Considering that our perscriptions come to over $1,000 a month now, I don't feel that's a bad deal (Yes, Sta., the union isurance pays for our perscritions now). But, for that money, we see a doctor any time we need to and have what ever procedures the Doctor recommends. Like I have already pointed out, Medicare says NO to more procedures a year than ALL the private medical insurance companies combined.

{{""I see so you never got a k-12 education which was payed for the by the government, you never drove on a road which was payed for by the government, you never have gotten health care via an employer which is subsidies by the government, you never went to college which is subsided by the government, and you've never had a home mortgage which is subsidies by the government.""}}

How many times do I have to say this, Sta., I quit school at the age of 15 because I could NOT read. And I find it funny that my young wife taught me to read the first year we were married. Next, the Government DID NOT pay for the schools, we did, it's called through taxes. Do you understand WHERE the government GETS it's money??? And the roads we drive on, guess what, they are paid for through fuel taxes. Once more, where do you THINK the government GETS it's money from? My employer pays over $4.00 an hour to the union (who are NOT subsidised by the government) for every hour I work. Do you understand that now???? I bought my first home on a private contract and once it was paid for, sold it and used the proceeds to buy this one. Why on earth do you people think and feel that Uncle Sam has to be in on everything you do??? You can't do anything by yourself???Where do all you leftist come up with this Cradle to the Grave mentality??? Your not cabable of doing anything for your self??? You can't make any plans and stick to them?? When I told my brother what my union retirement was going to be (he's also a leftist) his only comment was, "Your lucky", as if I hadn't planed it.

{{""I see so you would rather have (*)(*)(*)(*)tier and more expensive health care because of you ideology. It is amazing how you think being poor and unhealthy is better then accepting reality""}}

I want the best health care I can afford for my wife and I. And since she has Parkinson disease, and is at stage 4, I don't feel we need your cattle style health care. We already went through that when I was in the service. You see, your beloved Obama's bill says we CANNOT have private insurance (go look it up).

 

Great, why don't you and the other like minded go over to one of those countries. Just trip on up to Canada and see what happens.

 

Please disprove the statement that for profit companies have the majority of the medical breakthroughs.

 

Why? I've worked, paid my taxes, and those funds have financed medical coverage for others. Now I want a piece of that same pie that I and other American taxpayers have provided for others overseas.

 

Living here in Florida, we have a lot of people ("snowbirds") who live here during the winter, and live in Canada during the summer. One of them tells "what happens" when he goes to a doctor in Canada. He says he is viewed as a patient. In the US, going to a doctor, he is viewed as a SALE.

Also, people who knock the idea of government health should ask themselves what might they do if they should incur some serious life-long ailment or injury that requires millions of $$$ in care ? Do they think for a minute that their insurance co. is going to pay million$$ for years and decades.

They'll be dropped as soon as renewel time rolls around. And what then ?
Won't take long before the doctors and hospitals drain your life savings out of your pocket. Conclusion: You may NEED that govt health care someday.

 

{{""Not on point but one should be reminded that charity begins at home, not overseas. There is nothing in the Constitution about nation building and conservatives conveniently ignore that ""}}

But there is in the U.N. when you go to war with another country, right?

{{""Margaret Sanger and her financiers Rockefeller, Prescott Bush, and Clarence Gamble were all RepubliCONs. The Supreme Court which legalized abortion were all RepubliCON majority. You RepubliCONs are the biggest political murderers anywhere. Yet, you persist in projecting your actions unto everyone else. As an independent voter, I know this Truth and am not afraid of saying so.""}}

Margaret Sanger preached from the 30's to the 60's and very few people took her seriously. It was a well known fact that she was trying to reduce the black population through abortion. But the real push came in the early 70's and it was the Dem's that were behind it. I WAS THERE AND KNOW!!! So get off your
Margaret Sanger kick and look at the way it really happened.

{{""Told you already that I have never been one. But I gave you the reference from the government which clearly shows those costs are deductible on your tax return.""}}

Well I have and guess what, you HAVE to have the money on hand to meet your payroll. In construction you usually get paid 60 to 90 days AFTER the work is done. So, what ever work you have paid for in Jan. you will get paid for in Mar. or April. So, guess what, you have to have the MONEY on hand??? MONEY, MONEY to meet the payroll, MONEY for materials, MONEY for fuel and upkeep on your vehicals. And your beloved Obama wants to tax small business men after they reach $250,000?? Mister, do you know what a Sub Chapter S Corporation is or how it works so far as money goes??? Unlike large Corporations, any moneys left over you have to claim as personal income. But what about operating capital for the following year?? Tuff!!! And anyone that runs a business knows you need at lest 6 months operating capital on hand but you and Obama want to tax that and cut down on the amount of employees the small business man can hire. Real smart since the small business man hires 70% of those working in the nation. And on top of that you want to stick him with another 18% on top of the
(in this state 5) taxes he has to pay on each employee. How many more people do you want to put on the unemployment rolls???

{{""Your use of that name precedes my entry into the forum. The world "*******" has been widely used here by others as well. It is you far right delusionals who began with the name calling. Bu trust me, I have a large encyclopedia of epithets that I can readily use.""}}


Your use of RepubliCON impies that conservatives want to"Con" everbody. Well, since I feel that the Communist and the Democrats have the same agenda it's fair to call democrats, Democommies. "Current Communist Goals," was published in 1958, 4 years before the first one on the list ever happened,;

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=370&invol=421

Engel v. Vitale, 1962

What was the age of Engel and who took it to the U.S. Supreme Court and what were her political conections???

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1999/nov99/psrnov99.html
Red China: Gatekeeper of the Panama Canal

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,949595,00.html
Giving Away The Canal: Jimmy Carter on Panama

http://www.wnd.com/1999/12/1493/
Clinton's Panama Canal admission

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/1998/04/world_court.html
Clinton Administration Promotes World Criminal Court

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1095343.stm
US signs up for war crimes court

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/06/us-may-join-warcrimes-court
US may join international war crimes court, Hillary Clinton hints

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

This all started in 1960, and I watch as it progressed, pushed by liberals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPAA
The group adopted the Motion Picture Production Code, popularly known as the "Hays Code" in 1930. The Code spelled out what was acceptable and what was unacceptable content for motion pictures produced for a public audience in the United States. Enforcement of Hays Code began in 1934 and continued until 1968, when it was replaced by the MPAA film rating system

http://mpaa.org/about/history
In the late 1960s our nation was changing, and so was its cinema. Alongside the progress of the civil rights, women's rights and labor movements, a new kind of American film was emerging - frank and open. Amid our society's expanding freedoms, the movie industry's restrictive regime of self-censorship could not stand. In 1966, former Special Assistant to President Lyndon Johnson, Jack Valenti, was named MPAA President. That same year, sweeping revisions were made to the Hays Code to reflect changing social mores

Once more pushed by Democrats

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

Loyalty oaths have been a part of America’s legal system since the Founding Fathers, who codified it under Art. II, §1, cl. 7 and Art. VI, cl.3. However, loyalty oaths exposed socialists and communists as being predominately humanists, atheists and duplicitous; therefore, after 170 years of jurisprudence protecting loyalty oaths, beginning in the early 1960s loyalty oaths were systematically ruled unconstitutionally “vague,” “overbroad” or violations of speech and association by our Marxist judiciary.

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

Do you happen to know who Angela Davis is and what she did to this nation in the late 60's?? And guess what party she was afileated with???

Angela Davis (born January 26, 1944) is an American political activist, scholar, and author. Davis emerged as a nationally prominent activist in the 1960s, when she was associated with the Communist Party USA, the Black Panther Party.

Angela Davis ran for U.S. Vice President on the Communist Party ticket in 1980

The Communist Party USA has been brazenly operating in America since 1919 and through its sympathizers in the unions, Congress, the courts, Hollywood and the media, has overtime achieved constitutional free speech and association protections for itself which has essentially turned our Constitution into a suicide pact.


http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2006/09/...torneys-not-required-to-sign-terrorism-oaths/

ACLU Claims Victory: Attorneys Not Required to Sign Terrorism Oaths

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

The progressive Hughes and Warren Courts, positive law, separation of church and state, the incorporation doctrine, Roe v. Wade, NLRB v. Jones Laughlin Steel (1937), which legalized FDR’s Marxist New Deal programs, are a few examples of how socialist activist courts have deconstructed society and liberal judges have corrupted the Constitution.


17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

And how many publishers are approved for printing text books? And if you get text books starting from the early 1900's onwards you just might learn a thing or two if that's possible.

Progressive education was purposely centralized to dumb down society through state-controlled education atheism, anti-American propaganda and a de-emphasis on history, philosophy, religion and objective “truth,” which communists define as “anything that will promote communism.” Obama’s secretary of education, Arne Duncan, recently said that up to 80 percent of all public schools will fail within a year. Textbooks have been absolutely compromised and perverted


29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis

This is typical of libs, go on most any forum and see what they have to say.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002298778
Is the U.S. Constitution outdated?

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/05/outdated-constitution
Outdated Constitution

This is typical of libs.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/occupy-assaults-outdated-u-s-constitution/
Occupy assaults 'outdated' U.S. Constitution

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

And if you haven't heard this one tossed around you have ear plugs in;


http://citizenreviewonline.org/feb_2003/founding.htm

Founding Fathers wrote Constitution for all the people
A letter-to-the-editor writer in our local paper had this to say: "Our Founding Fathers, who wrote the Constitution, may have been brilliant and courageous souls but they were also elitists who were not particularly enamored of the idea that ordinary citizens ought to have any direct role to play in governance.

Shall I go into the E.O.s that virtually enslaves America next??

 

Once more, my insurance through the union is open ended after the first $1500. The Union insurance can't drop me for anything other than nonpayment. Why do you think I planed for it during my working life???

And, Friend, I don't need the government for anything other than to stay out of my life.

 

Because now you want me to pay for what ever you come up with and think you need. Do I pay for low income housing??? How about food stamps, do I pay for them also??? Oh, we can't have the poor darlings going without proper cloths so we pay for that too. In the early 80's they were telling the teen age girls in school that if they wanted to get out from under their parents control, just get pregnant and the government would pay for their housing, buy their food and clothing, and give them money to play around on. And, Mister, don't tell me it didn't happen, my daughters that were in school at the time will call you a liar. Do we pay for working mothers daycare??? Do we supply them with transportation?? Now you want me to pay for their health care too. You want to take another 18% of the income and place it in government hands???

 

Since this is a forum with horrible link infrastructure. Please use 'google do i feel lucky button'

 

If it was possible for the government to do anything for "free", I would say hell yeah! But free doesnt exist in the real world.

 

Public goods have non-rivalry in consumption (one of the reasons why the private sector fails in their provision). Technically that produces a 'free lunch'

 

The overwhelming majority of Americans agree with the economic ideas of Marxism. Polls show almost no Americans disagree with it. Even most Republicans agree with it, and in 2007 the whole Congress voted to raise the minimum wage substantially (by a landslide) and George Bush signed it into law.

Also, a recent Pew poll showed 86% of the American people were in favor of raising taxes on the rich, thereby redistributing wealth. It is only the totalitarian and internationalist ideas of communism that most people disagree with (including me).