Should Trump Be Prosecuted?

I fully agree with that.

 

The problem with - not our political system but our Justice system - is already like that of a banana republic in some instances -- Clintongate and Russiagate being two examples .. Assange - Snowden being 3rd and 4rth .. and we can continue.

"Crimes against Humanity" ? You must be confusing Trump with Obama.

 

Not for you.

The evidence is in the graveyards. I don't own the graveyards. But like I said, for you, just go back to sleep, nothing for you to see here.

 

Emotions are no substitute for facts.

 

Nope, both committed crimes against humanity and Biden was complicit, and so did Bush. Unfortunately, that's all we get in our pretend government, war criminals and constitutional criminals, one after another. It goes back several administrations. I would have a hard time picking out a President who wasn't a war criminal, it seems to be a tradition in Amerika, land of the "free", where 2.3 million people are incarcerated and another 5.5 million on parole or probation.

 

Sorry no evidence there either except for the evidence against blue state governors. incompetence.

 

Tell that to the 260K dead and countless others on their death beds. Somehow I can't fathom that the same number would die from "panic".

 

Correct, the facts and evidence speak for themselves.

 

I don't see anything Trump did as rising to that level though .. no major wars started .. walking into the Yemen Syria disasters was not his doing.

Don't get me wrong - I think Trump was a disaster - but I don't see where the crimes against humanity label fits.

 

You claimed there was a crime and then refuted your own post with a list of non-crimes. I understand not liking him, but that's not a crime.

 

With all the divide in this country; as much as I would love to see Trump in jail, it will do more harm than good. Time to move on and take the high road

 

Indeed. And today Trump had the gall to pardon turkey at the White House even though turkey is a rogue Islamic state and its leader Erdogan is an tyrant, terrorist-sympathizer and international criminal.

Trump must be prosecuted for crimes against turkey-haters and Biden must reverse the pardon and finish turkey off as soon as he is inaugurated.

 

And therein lies part of the problem. Unless most people start recognizing what genocide and other crimes against humanity are, there will always be genocide and crimes against humanity committed with impunity.

NUREMBURG PRINCIPLES

Principle I

Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefor and liable to punishment.

Principle II

The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.

Principle III

The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible Government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

Principle IV

The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.

Principle V

Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law.

Principle Vl

The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under; international law:

a. Crimes against peace:

i. Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

ii. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

b. War crimes:

Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave-labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or illtreatment of prisoners of war, of persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

c. Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhuman acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.

Principle VII

Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principles VI is a crime under international law.

 

Even with the distances you are willing to stretch to make him a criminal, you don't come close. He makes you angry. Thats not a crime.

 

Just like the announcements about the vaccines didn't come out before the election. No, Durham is obviously a deep state actor as well. Now we have a banana republic just like Venezuela and other Communist countries. No better and no worse. Just sick and pathetic.

 

There is no liability. Trump would be acting Constitutionally within the law of the Office of the President. Government Congresspersons and President can't be sued. Didn't you know?

 

I get that Bob . not - Tim Buck two here .. - and what you post does not really address my argument - although it does give some added color so OK.


The crimes that were committed happened under Heir Obama - at least the vast majority of them. Trump walked into the situation after the fact. So we can't make him culpable - or at minimum his culpability is very grey.

The war crimes in Yemen by El Saud and company decreased significantly during Trump's reign .. nothing this had to do with Trump - but the world was freaking out .. we are now being investigated as we speak for complicity in war crimes in Yemen.

This is nothing in comparison to Syria - but that was not Trump's doing .. in fact his one real action was to pull out from the Kurds ..

Think we need to fine tune our generalizations a bit .. when we run around lumping everyone into the same basket -.. the basket can become meaningless.

 

a criminal is a criminal...

if the criminal gets caught and happened to hold political office the person is still a criminal

 

It's ok, I didn't expect you or millions or others to understand and recognize what war crimes and crimes against humanity are even when these are defined in black and white and agreed to by the US government and many other signatories. Just like the Constitution is not recognized as it stands by most in our pretend government, never mind the majority of Americans. And so like I said, these crimes against humanity will continue unless and until these are recognized for what they are by the majority (if ever).

Not according to the Nuremburg Principles, there's nothing grey about it. Both are war criminals, it doesn't matter who started it or who continued it or who did more or less, read the text for yourself, it's plain English. My position and moral principles stand as stated above whether you agree or not, there is nothing "grey" about the Nuremburg Principles or what is human or inhumane even without the Nuremburg Principles.

 

Democrats actually benefit from Trump not being in jail. If Trump is found guilty and jailed, he will probably be replaced by a more mainstream GOP candidate in 2024, who has a really good chance of actually winning. If Trump isn't jailed, he has a good chance of winning the nomination and burying the GOP in more unpopular Trumpism.

 

OP: Criminal charges against Trump may not be in national interest. He will have a plethora of Civil Suits to fight...

 

I don't look at it politically, I look at it in terms of 'justice matters'.

There is no way in hell he's going to run in 2024, that kind of talk is just bluster. I'm pretty sure Melania will divorce him if he does that. And there is the financial aspect. He did his brand a lot of damage, and though I don't think he can recover from it, running again will just do more damage to his bottom line. Although he fleeced taxpayers, he lost more than he fleeced in brand devaluation.

 

delete

 

That's a given, as that is what Trump has done. "Undue influence" by a president putting pressure on the DOJ, it simply isn't done, yet Trump has done it. Also, it will taint actual prosecutions as Judges won't look kindly on a president doing it, and might throw the whole case out, because of it.

 

the difference is that Nixon resigned after Senator Goldwater told him that he had to do it, or be impeached.

In this case, there is no reason for Trump to step down, and if he does, it will be obvious what the scheme is, that he will conspire with Pence on the idea Trump will step down and Pence will pardon him.

that's corrupt intent. And THAT IS WHY he will be prosecuted, because of his crimes and the pardon will be challenged as corrupt.

After Nixon stepped down, there is no clear indication of corrupt intent. From the outside, it merely looks like Nixon was forced out or be impeached, and that resulted in Ford becoming president. Now, Nixon might have asked Ford, in secret, to be pardoned, but he had no bargaining power, no real quid pro quo to offer in order to get it. Thus, the indication is that Ford pardoned him because he didn't feel Nixon deserved to be put in Jail, which is the real reason to pardon anyone. Not seeing corruption there. But, when Ford did it, I thought it was wrong, I mean, a lot of folks went to jail, so why is the president getting off scot free?

Frankly, I don't think Trump will step down because I don't think Pence, though he is a supreme sycophant, is stupid enough to go along with the scheme, to be president for a day and pardon Trump. I can't imagine he'd do something like that. to be president for day would mean you'd be the butt of jokes forever. What would Pence have to gain? I don't see it.