Should US presidents retain the right of pardoning criminals?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Reasonablerob, Apr 11, 2020.

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Should the US president retain the right of pardon?

  1. Yes, it is an essential part of Presidential privilege

    15 vote(s)
    57.7%
  2. Yes but there should maybe be some form of oversight to it

    2 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. It should only be used in exceptional circumstances

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  4. It should be abolished.

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    This seems a bit of holdover from Britain but the monarch lost the right of pardon here a long time ago. It has a checkered history, Ford pardoned Nixon but also the draft dodgers as a healing measure for the nation. Carter pardoned Patty Hearst, Bush pardoned Gordon Liddy and many of those in the involved in Iran/Contra (except Lynda Carter's banker husband but what jury is going to find a man guilty when Wonder Woman comes to support him in court every day?). Trump pardoned that young bubblehead who was stupid enough to put internal pics of his sub on social media and various other military types who made tough judgement calls. Truman even commuted the death sentence of his attempted assassin.

    On the other hand Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother, Barrack Obama pardoned over a thousand people for drug offences and I heard a rumour that Truman pardoned some of his election workers who been caught ballot rigging?

    So, should this power still be retained by the president or abolished?
     
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I voted yes, but not because its an 'essential privledge'. Its a check against political persecution.
     
  3. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Trump should and will pardon the poor generals who did nothing wrong
     
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's a constitutional check on the Judicial Branch part of that checks and balance thingy.
     
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  5. Facts-602

    Facts-602 Banned

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    We’re you even trying to make sense?
     
  6. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    At least he made the correct use of 'were'?
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, but not to protect their criminal buddies, anyone with a personal connection to the President should not be able to be pardoned by the President
     
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  8. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think that's fair, there should be a degree of restriction, you shouldn't be allowed to pardon your family etc.
     
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  9. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Yes !!!
     
  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    One of Bill Clinton's best pardons was a guy just down the road from here in Myakka city. The guy was basically locked up after serving his sentence for growing reefer on his land and given life AFTER serving his first sentence. *FatBack ponders, wonder if any seeds for "Myakka gold, still around? Interview with Mr Clark



    Search Results
    Web results

    Anderson: The marijuana legend of Myakka Gold - News ...
    www.heraldtribune.com › news › anderson-marijuana-l...

    Mar 25, 2019 - Donnie Clark, who grew a legendary strain of marijuana in the 1980s called Myakka Gold, received a life sentence for conspiracy, which was ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  11. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    This right to 'pardon' is an anachronism that needs to be done away with. Why should a president or any other citizen have the right to step in and reverse a lawful, legal decision?! There is no more justification for this weirdly medieval 'privilege' now than there was for the 'noble' lord of an estate to claim "The Right of the First Night" (Droit du seigneur) with the daughters of his serfs and other underlings when they got married!

    Never heard about this? Back several hundred years ago, the 'Lord of the Manor' could claim the right to have sex with the daughters of the peasants, who lived on his land, and his servants when they got married... literally, this 'noble' guy got to pork her on her wedding night, just because he happened to be who he was. What a bunch of bullshit! This "presidential pardon" privilege thing is just as arbitrary, just as unfair, and just as groundless....

    [​IMG]."Why me instead of your new husband...? Because I SAY SO!"
     
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Ford did not pardon draft dodgers. He only granted them clemency and Carter later pardoned them I idea is that a chief executive is the final bulwark against state prosecutorial overreach.
     
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  13. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    we should limit the number of pardons/commutations allowed by any one president during their entire term, say 99 total, it'll prevent the 'obama' types from pardoning 1000's between november & january of their last term in office...
     
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  14. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Invented by a C19th novelist and perpetuated by Braveheart. Has no basis in history.
     
  15. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    True but it was a pardon is all but name?
     
  16. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Oh, c'mon, Bob -- you can google this stuff up all day and all night, for different countries, in different centuries, etc.. But whether you accept "Right of the First Night" or not, the justification for something like that is the same as the one for "presidential pardons".... i.e., there ISN'T any....
     
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Our system of federal government revolves around the three branches of government and the series of checks and balances that is woven between them. Why should a Congress be able to overule a Presidential veto? Why should a judge be able to overturn a law passed by Congress. The Presidential pardon is a check on the judicial branch. Why does every governor have pardon power in their state governments?
     
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  18. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Well, damn. When you bring all that up, a presidential pardon ability seems only fair. I dunno, Blues.

    In the case of overriding a veto, at least it requires a large majority of all representatives to do that. But I have ALWAYS been mad as hell at the ability of some 'federal judge' to arbitrarily throw out a law that was voted for by a majority of "We, the People".

    I don't like ANY of these arbitrary, unilateral 'pardon' actions by anybody -- whether made by some doctrinaire 'federal judge', or, some insular president, of either political party.... But, I must admit that you present a compelling argument, and, on balance, considering the 'reality' of today, maybe you are right!
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well it certainly should not be taken lightly and yes it can be used wrongly as I think it did in the Clinton/Marc Rich pardon. But the founding fathers deliberated deeply on the matter and the core principle is just as important today and then. Lifetime appointed judges and the power of the judicial system. The presidential veto, the veto override, the presidential pardon they make our government work will reigning concentrated power. :handshake:
     
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  20. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    You've made a believer out of me after all. It is that "federal judge" thing that tips the balance for me. Now, every time I think about some damned federal judge deliberately sh!tting on the expressed will of the people, and overturning laws on personal whim I realize that one of the very few similar tools we have in our 'arsenal' is the ability of a president to intervene with a pardon. I still don't like it, but as the judiciary has become more and more radicalized, it's now more necessary for a president to have a "Gordian Knot" solution to problems of gross injustice....

    [​IMG]. "So much for your 'Gordian Knot' -- and -- hyperliberal judicial bullshit!" :twisted:
     
  21. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    It makes a mockery of an independent justice system.
     
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  22. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I like the idea that the U.S. Presidents have the pardon power. :)
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You should research and discover the first time the Pardon power was exercised.
     
  24. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Kudos to both of you.
     
  25. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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