Since the Iraq war.....

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Nonnie, Jan 14, 2023.

?

Do I feel embarrassed of my country

  1. Very much so

  2. Yes

  3. Not so much, just a little

  4. No

  5. Something I didn't consider/quantify

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do Americans feel embarrassed "OVERALL" of their country on the world stage.

    So don't gripe about one or two presidents, overall as a collective feeling and image of America on the world's stage, how do you feel on the embarrassment scale.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
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  2. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    No. When you have pigs like Putin and Xi, there is nothing to feel embarrassed about. Those two make no bones about their imperialist intentions.

    Hindsight tells us we should not have gone into Iraq for a number of reason. First, Saddam was not building WMDs like Bush 41 thought. Second Saddam was a counterweight to Iran. Both of them are evil has hell, but they both hated each other. Therefore it was bad actor one vs. bad actor two.

    After 9/11, what were we supposed to do? Bin Laden had to be killed. We stayed in Afghanistan for too long, but killing him and breaking up Isis were noble goals.
     
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  3. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its embarrassing to be caught in lies which result in so much loss of life, but its in the past and I hope such thing won't happen again.
     
  4. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Well-Known Member

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    Gonna be honest, it's hard to feel super prideful when your country invades another one like Iraq under the pretense of WMDs and none were found nor were ever there, and the country was left a huge colossal mess since then.
     
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  5. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t consider the government “my country”. I think 5e government of every country is full of *******s that will use every tool at their disposal to gain more power. Politicians are the scum and worst criminals of every nation on earth. The politicians of the USA just happen to have more power than others at this point in history. If the UK still had as much power as they used to, India would still be British colonies. Russia is still trying to be an empire when it doesn’t have the power to back it up. Cuban politicians would be conquering if their politicians had the power.

    It’s politicians that I find embarrassing, not countries.
     
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  6. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I could rattle off a list of things about our country that are embarrassing, but in general, I’m still proud to be an American.

    We enjoy the highest level of individual freedom in the world. We have high employment, a high standard of living, and safety nets for our poor. Our country is secured by the strongest military in the world. And America is the most generous country in the world.

    We have our problems, and our politicians are simply awful (we deserve better).

    But I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else, and I’m proud to be an American.

    :salute: :flagus:
     
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  7. clg311

    clg311 Well-Known Member

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    The invasion was a terrorist attack and none of the perps have been held accountable and the same animals have been foaming at the mouth about Russia and China and murdering people in Libya and Yemen ever since. The democrats nominated two of them in 2016 and 2020.
     
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  8. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t think an attack by a nation state fits the definition of terrorism. I think that only applies to non-state actors.
     
  9. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Can't it? I thought it had more to do with the methods. That is, violence/threats done against non-combatants in order to achieve a political aim. Non-state actors use it because these are softer targets, and they have less conventional power at their disposal. In WWII, purposely destroying civilian targets in order to break civilian will (done to various degrees by most of the major powers with strategic bombing) was a terrorist tactic.

    It does appear the definitions are controversial, but the US legal definition does restrict it to "subnational" groups. Could be a self-serving definition though.

    Terrorism - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
  10. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would say when a nation does it, it is war. War is terrifying, everyone will feel terror. But I don't think just being terrifying counts as terrorism. Terrorism is more of a small scale unpredictable thing that could happen at any time. War is just a constant, where terrifying things happen until the war ends. Armies targeting civilians is a brutal act for sure, but I wouldn't call it terrorism. Just terrible. It has happened in pretty much every war. It's less obvious today with our "smart" weapons. Every side of WW2 targeted civilian targets. Breaking down national morale and means of production that way is just a means to an end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
  11. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    It's debatable, but I lean towards that it comes down to intent. For example there's the bombing of Dresden in WW2. Strategic bombing at the time was not normally very accurate, so even if you aim at military targets, you are likely to also/instead hit civilians ones. Dresden had military significance - legit targets existed. They could have aimed at those military targets, but instead aimed at the city center and hit less opposition than expected, and so it was a deadly raid for civilians. The way this was conducted was an act of terrorism, imo.

    There were some who believed they could break the enemy's will with strategic bombing, though results were mixed at best. If the intent is to destroy factories so that the enemy can't build enough planes and tanks, that's different.
     
  12. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    The pull out from Afghanistan was a dumpster fire so yes as to that. Otherwise, can't think of a time.
     
  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With regards to the freedom index, America is 15th -

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country
     
  14. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t answer the poll because I am not embarrass today but I was during the war. Iraq war was the biggest foreign policy blunder in US history.
     
  15. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    Let me see if I understand. Putin is bad, Xi is bad, so we can be bad too?

    Saddam didn’t have WMD, Saddam was not involved with 9/11 yet we went to Iraq and removed it’s leader unprovoked and you wany to say oh well there are other bad country in the world, we can be bad too!
     
  16. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    Apart from “ America is the strongest military in the world” , every thing else in the above sentence are false.
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I dont feel embarrassed for things I have no control over.

    Im certainly concerned that we're about to find out how bad this corporate authoritarian progressive road we've been going down really is. But Im solidly on record calling it out as a bad idea. And I'll be fine either way, but theres a lot of suffering at the end of this road and not much of a turnaround either. But no, im not embarrassed. Im prepared.

    Most of the rest of the world went there ahead of us, so its not like we're special. Or, we wont be for much longer anyway.
     
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  18. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since Vietnam extremely embarrassed.
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was generally proud of what Trump accomplished... but Biden is a total disaster.... what he did in Afghanistan was a betrayal that is up there with the turning away of the Jewish refugees on the M. S. St. Louis........


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It wasn't about him currently building them. It was about the ones we knew he had possessed and were not accounted for. He didn't need tto be building anymore until he could get the sanctions lifted and inspections ended. His chemicaland biological materials were not high quality and even in proper storage would degregate. We found lots of what he was attempting to hide buried in the desert. We also found the precursors he had hidden from inspectors and as the ISG reported could have and would have rebuilt his aresenals in a matter on months once he was out from under the sanctions and restrictions. And he was on the verge of that happening with his bribing UN officials with the oil for food money and as the Clinton administration had warned we could not allow that to happen for he would ALWAYS be a threat to his own people, the region and the world.
     

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