Sincere request to help me understand why you feel abortion is not murder.

You said "therefore by mating they are agreeing to accept any of said consequences." Again, what is your evidence? Did you take a poll of women who want an abortion and learn that they had consented to having a baby? I doubt that.

Do you apply that same rule to your own behavior? You must realize there are potential consequences to driving a car. Do you ONLY drive your care when you are ready to accept ALL of the potential consequences? Or... if you have an accident, will you avail yourself of emergency services (paid for in part by your neighbor's tax money and insurance premiums)? If you are consistent with your attitude toward pregnant women, you will say "No, don't open up the car with the Jaws of Life... I knew there was a risk of this happening when I got in the car, so just let nature take its course" ?

You said (regarding evidence that the fertilized egg, or sperm cell, could be inhabited by a soul) "I did, but if you do not believe in God or His word then you feel that evidence is invalid." If you refer to your quote from Jeremiah, it does not prove Jeremiah's soul inhabited that body before birth. It says God knew Jeremiah (his soul) before he had a body. Many of us believe the soul is eternal. It existed long before inhabiting a body, leaves the body when the cerebrum ceases to function, and (depending on your religion) goes somewhere else for eternity or inhabits many different physical bodies to continue learning and developing. The Bible certainly supports a conclusion that the soul is eternal and the body is transient. The Bible does not support a claim that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, or that every fetus should be protected like a child or a person. For example, the instructions God gave for the priests to deal with a woman who has committed adultery do not allow for saving the unborn product of that adultery (Numbers 5:11-31). Not one word there about delaying the process in case she is pregnant. In fact, an unexplained pregnancy is the most likely reason for a husband to suspect infidelity.

Does the presence of living human DNA prove that the fetus is a person? Not really. A person may suffer a traumatic brain injury leaving the primitive brain stem intact. When the cerebrum is not functional, the person/mind/soul is gone. That is why if was not murder to remove the feeding tube from Terri Schiavo's living body (with human DNA), but it would be murder to remove the feeding tube from a person who is in an induced coma healing from a transient injury.

If you really believe "human DNA" is critical, what about a fetus with DNA that does not match human specifications? For example, if a newborn has the wrong number of chromosomes but its mind is active, would you say it is not human? No... you would accept it as a person because of the nature of its mind. If a person gets a virus that changes his DNA, would you say he has become a different person? No... because it is the mind... not the DNA... that makes us persons.

You appear to be confused about the difference between the human organism and the person (or spirit or soul if you prefer).

 

I am a woman who has been pregnant and had a child. YOU have no right to tell me how to feel! Got it?

 

To the OP: You have every RIGHT to your own opinions regarding abortion. Ignore the liberals.

 

When I have trouble putting things in perspective, I try to vary some of the parameters (like a thought experiment) to see which factors might be influencing my judgement. For example, your initial post described a brutal-sounding procedure. What if abortion could be accomplished without any risk of pain to the fetus? Would you then agree that any woman should be able to get an abortion?

Suppose, for example, that the zika virus not only caused severe brain damage to the fetus, but also caused the infected woman to become pregnant spontaneously every time she ovulates (fertility scientists can do this in the lab without sperm cells now). That removes the element of consent to sex versus consent to pregnancy. Would you then agree that these women should be able to get abortions?

 

What facts

Facts are not unsupported opinion - facts are reasoned items that are supported by research or qualified observation

Where are your "facts"?

This is what I mean

http://www.livescience.com/17529-trimester-abortions.html

 

You do not have a right to spread misinformation and lies neither do you have a right to incite divisiveness within your society

 

I said only potential because I cannot think of some of the more malformed foetuses as being human

Not when they are "cyclops" babies (yes born with only one eye in the middle of the forehead) born without that which makes us human - a functioning forebrain - or in the case below - born with a brain developing where the spinal chord would normally be

Alyson Draper posted her story during the third presidential debate on Wednesday night, which included a question about late-term abortions. Her post has already been shared over 111,000 times.

According to BuzzFeed, Draper was 40 years old when she became pregnant with twins through in vitro fertilization. She said it was “the most wanted and planned pregnancy ever.”

But at 22 weeks, she learned that one of her twins had died in the womb, and the other’s (sic) had a birth defect known as Spina bifida, a birth where the backbone doesn’t form normally, and would only live for a few days on life support.

[...]

“Our baby’s case was so severe that the entire brain was pulled down and formed on the back, and the spine was exposed all the way down to the lumbar vertebrae at the bottom,” Draper told BuzzFeed.

And due to the dead fetus, Draper’s own health was also at risk.

[...]

Draper, who wrote that she did not want to have an abortion, nonetheless noted that it was “done very gently, by Caesarean section, leaving the babies in their amniotic sacs.”

Her account stands in stark contrast to how Donald Trump described a late-term abortion as “[ripping] the baby out of the womb” during the debate on Wednesday night.

[...] javascript://

http://mediamatters.org/research/20...-have-actually-had-late-term-abortions/214093

A WANTED pregnancy - gone terribly wrong

 

I agree that the OP (and everybody else) has a right to his own opinions, but when a person gets on a soapbox trying convince others to make drastic changes in their lives based on those opinions, wouldn't you expect them to provide some evidence and logic to support those opinions?

 

What misinformation and lies? That abortion is not "great" like you disgusting people say?

- - - Updated - - -

You don't make any sense. He thinks it's morally wrong. Period.

 

Sorry but your statement is incorrect. No one here has stated that abortion is "great". It is at best a regrettable necessity and one that should not be denied to any woman needing it.

 

Look how you all defend it. It's kind of sick to say the least. While it might be a necessary evil for some, it is not something that should be encouraged or cheered on.

 

If I had been raised in a different culture, I might believe it is morally wrong to kill any living thing (including ants). If I got on my soapbox and said it should be illegal for anybody in this country to kill any living thing, wouldn't you require some evidence and logic to support that position? I don't think you would accept such a drastic change to your life without it (if you are a sane individual). Why do you give the OP a free pass when he demands that others must live according to his moral code?

 

I haven't seen the OP "demand" anything. What I have seen is him get beat up by you pro abortion people because he has a different opinion than you. Well sorry, everyone is NOT going to think the same as you. Get used to it.

 

Simple? I dare you to look:

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/
http://www.priestsforlife.org/images/abortion-images-galleries.aspx

 

We defend it as a regrettable necessity - would we like to see a world where it is no longer required - you bet. I would like you to point out one post where we have "encouraged or cheered on" abortion

 

You all attack anyone who says it's morally wrong EVERY time. Give it up. I've read plenty of the posts on this topic.

- - - Updated - - -

I won't even look. It's pretty horrible. I've seen pictures before.

 

Take a look at this post. I say "I THINK" it's cruel and I would not do it, and this poster tells me it is NOT cruel. It would be cruel to ME. Getting it yet?

 

Whether you had a kid or not has nothing to do with what I can or can't tell you....childbirth doesn't give you a special privilege...AND I didn't tell you how to feel.

Here's what I posted with out the accidental addition of your words:

No, that's NOT cruel, you cant' be cruel to someone who never existed. I think it's very cruel to force women to give birth to a child they don't want or can't afford, cruel to the woman but even more cruel to the kid (BOTH of whom actually exist).

In an abortion the fetus is not tortured to death, it feels nothing so I don't know why you think it's so "cruel and horrible"...and it certainly doesn't resemble a "baby" in any way.

Why do you favor adoption? You want kids to know their mother didn't want them. You want kids stuck in a system where if they're not white and perfect they may spend their life until they're 18 ? May be abused?

Why would a woman give up 9 months of her life, suffer financial/career/educational setbacks, temporary and permanent damage to her body, the pain of pregnancy and childbirth
just to give someone else a kid and make some OTHER people feel all warm and fuzzy????? That would be NUTS!

That said, it's good you realize what other women do is not your concern or business, some people aren't that intelligent ..."""""





SEE, NO where did I tell you how to feel.

 

Why do you dare me?

I won't look for any honesty on a site called Child Rapers for life....I think it would be very biased....

 

Then do feel free to tell me how anything can be cruel to something that never existed ....

You sure are having a hard time actually addressing the post....can you do more than whine?

""" I think it's very cruel to force women to give birth to a child they don't want or can't afford, cruel to the woman but even more cruel to the kid (BOTH of whom actually exist)."""

Do you agree?

 

"Give it up" ?Are you telling someone what to do? YOU don't like it when you perceive someone is telling you what to do....

Aren't you just a little too emotional for this debate?

Have you seen" horrible pictures of triple bypass surgery, there's icky blood there,too....maybe we should outlaw them because you find it icky...

 

Doesn't matter the name of the site contains the word, "Priests". Open it and look, or don't speak of it again.

 

That was not to horrify, it was to address Fox Hastings statements that "abortions are simple procedures" and "fetuses are not humans". I think many who take his position are simply ignorant, and have no concept of how offensive their words are.

 

Your emotions continue to hand you the short end of the stick.

Pro-Choicers defend women's right to choose. They do NOT promote, encourage or cheer on abortion, That is a LIE!




They promote choice, you know, the same damn freedom everyone else has, for pregnant women. Taking away that right is sick.



YES! For some women abortion IS a great choice... And thank goodness they can have safe abortions!!

You whine about being told how to feel but want to force others to your will on abortion.

 

I'll speak of it all I want and I say it's biased and crooked and dishonest and run by priests who are against women but support pedophiles....


Even if it was a video of an actual abortion I don't need to see it to know that the woman has every right to have one and silly false "icky " pictures won't change my mind..

Most surgeries are "icky" , should we ban them all ???