Socialism 101

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Str8Edge, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. geofree

    geofree Active Member

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    More specifically, I am talking about the rent of natural resources. If you don't want government to have the rent – as a replacement for taxation – then we could just have the government collect the rent of land, place all that money into a giant chest and sink it in the deepest ocean. The point being, that peoples income (potential consumption) should be a reflection of their production. But that is not possible when part of society is receiving income just for being privileged to stop others from using land. Taking the rent of land in taxation and burning it would at least restore the balance that an individuals consumption would be regulated by his production.
     
  2. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Promoting the general welfare implies sufficient Socialism to enact public policies which are Pareto Optimal.
     
  3. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    Almost every country that exists is a combination of socialism and capitalism, so really, there's no need to pretend that it's an "all or nothing" equation.

    Most countries have socialist institutions like public roads and public education, just like most countries have capitalist markets for most consumer goods.

    It's just a matter of deciding where on the balance between the two is optimal.
     
  4. Str8Edge

    Str8Edge New Member

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    You mean specifically enumerated within the constitution itself?

     
  5. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    But with the Left there is no shut off point; there is no optimal balance. With the Left they will never stop pushing to always make things more socialist in nature.
     
  6. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case, they've done a crappy job of it. America is one of the least socialized countries in the world.

    Norway, for example, is much more socialized and is arguably a better country to live in.
     
  7. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Maybe we will enjoy it.
     
  8. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Sigh! Norway is a tiny country with immense OIL revenue and NO MILITARY, and so it can afford to be as socialist as it wants to be. The Left in the United States takes none of that into account in their efforts to turn this nation into their dream nation and so they have absolutely no clue whatsoever regarding how much damage their pie-in-the-sky dreams are going to do to this nation. Leftwingers don't think as such; primarily they simply emote.
     
  9. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Might as well relax and take another toke then because enjoy it or not they are probably going to be successful since it's always much easier to damage or destroy a system than it is to create one. Leftwingers are taking sledgehammers to every foundation this nation possesses and are swinging away with in a freenzy. Personally I don't think they can be stopped, but at least they can still be spat on.
     
  10. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    Some probably fit that, and yes, Norway is very different from America in a lot of ways that we would find difficult to mimic.

    The same is true of a lot of countries like that.

    But honestly, I think that's probably a good reason to move to one of those countries. The truth of the matter might simply be that America is too large and too poor with a culture too violent to really evolve into something more appealing to live amidst.

    I'm liberal/socialist on certain issues, and while I think we have the potential to make certain changes that would bring us closer to the nice things in countries like Norway and Finland, ultimately, I have to acknowledge that such ideas may be just, as you said -- a dream.

    It's part of why I don't plan on living here past about another decade. Australia and Canada seem like better prospects, or maybe Ireland.

    America is definitely changing mostly for the worse, but it's not really socialism I'm worried about here -- I'm thinking more along the lines of this surveillance state, the rampant interventionism that drives up debts, and of course, the absurd healthcare prices here.
     
  11. awesome bossum

    awesome bossum Banned

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    I see the government's job as being that of the transformers job in a power grid. When there is no problem, (*)(*)(*)(*) off. When there's a voltage drop or spike, regulate it, then (*)(*)(*)(*) off!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer

    Nikola Tesla was way smarterer than Edison btw...

    And they don't want this happening...

    [video=youtube;bbLshnfu0wY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbLshnfu0wY[/video]
     
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Of course, our supreme law of the land, good Sir; bearing false witness about our own supreme law of the should be considered immoral, especially with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge.

    In Case there should be any doubt about priorities for Any responsible House.
     
  13. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    I look at the car parked in the background and -- even though I know why it couldn't happen -- I think of the engineer walking over to it afterwards and then saying, "Why have all my tires melted?" Then I think of the average Leftwinger . . . sigh . . . and nod my head. Exactly!
     
  14. awesome bossum

    awesome bossum Banned

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    Engineers aren't usually left-wingers. That's why the left never actually builds anything. They can only market it to the fools they propagate.
     
  15. geofree

    geofree Active Member

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    Sigh (x2)! The big difference here is that in Norway the oil reserves belong to the people, and that is something that the Right in the United States never takes into account. If the oil reserves were owned by a private individual, he might live in France, and the people of Norway would be no better off because of that oil. Capitalism would strip that benefit away from them in a heartbeat.
     
  16. awesome bossum

    awesome bossum Banned

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    And who protects you? Who subsidizes you more specifically?

    You guys are way too nice...

    http://www.norwaypost.no/index.php/news/latest-news/28235-foreigners-increase-norways-crime-statistics

    Yeah, it's all the tourists running around in Norway breaking the law. Not you're precious immigrants. That's a hoot!

    You guys are too nice.
     
  17. crisismanagement6

    crisismanagement6 New Member

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    Are you literate in any subject Palos? So far you have proved your ineptness in the right to keep and bear arms, now you trying to discuss economic systems? Having observed that you know nothing about our own supreme law of the land, I wonder just how much you think you know about that failed system of socialism.
     
  18. crisismanagement6

    crisismanagement6 New Member

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    So long as the planning is done by the free enterprise producer because no planning by government can compete with private enterprise which plans based on demand and profit. Socialism is a plan to fail.
     
  19. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what you're referring to, giving politicians in Washington DC an exclusive monopoly over oil supplies in the US. I'm sure that will make the oil market much improved for everyone...:smile:

    You really shouldn't. They're mostly crooks and liars.

    Why is it a dichotomy between politicians and "corporate officials"? Why can't oil and other natural resources be allocated by free markets? If there is idle land with no proximate interests, then people should be free to develop the land for productive purposes, don't you agree?

    There is not even close to 300+ million eligible voters. All the minors, felons, and prisoners are excluded from the voting process, and 94 million eligible voters abstained in 2012, which is more votes than either Obama or Romney received. That is a massive vote of no confidence in the political system. People don't want to be part of some nationalist movement that empowers politicians like Obama and Romney.

    Oil in Texas is called "Texas oil", not "National Oil"... :smile:
     
  20. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that answers my question. What do you mean by "nationalizing" oil supplies?
     
  21. Str8Edge

    Str8Edge New Member

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    That's the preamble... Not the constitution. It should also be pointed out their definition of the general welfare is a far cry from Marxist social welfare.
     
  22. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    You've clearly never been to Silicon Valley.
     
  23. awesome bossum

    awesome bossum Banned

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    Didn't a bubble kill them?
     
  24. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    And if you have enough employee owned businesses, it starts to look a lot like market socialism. Seriously, do some research. Even if it's just for half an hour on Wikipedia.

    Making up incorrect definitions doesn't help your argument.

    How do you have government bureaucrats in a stateless society?
     
  25. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    Maybe some of them back in the 90s. But here in the 21st century, we're doing quite well, thank you.
     

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