Solar panels make hydrogen

This could be an energy game changer


https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/0...announce-new-solar-panel-that-makes-hydrogen/

 

Awesome.

I believe Hydrogen will be the key player in the future of energy production on Earth. Learning to extract it efficiently from various sources is the holy grail.

If solar and other methods can accomplish the feat, you are correct is stating is would be a game changer.

Very positive news!!

 

Can't wait. Think about all that new H2O filling the atmosphere.....

 

This technology does have an advantage over solar electric in that a hydrogen tank is undoubtedly cheaper energy storage than is a battery.

 

The problem with hydrogen is that it's not very energy dense. This would be one of the better solutions, as it doesn't involve a moving vehicle.

 

You didn't read the article, did you? The water that is broken down to make the hydrogen comes from the atmosphere, so yes, there would be new H20, but it would come from the old H20 being broken down.

 

Isn't hydrogen really just an energy storage or transport method?

 

Isn't hydrogen the base element for all combustibles? The problem would be in storage and transportation . Hydrogen is such a small atom.

 

Yes. If we have to make it, it is just an energy storage medium. But that is true for everything is you push far enough. Petroleum is just a storage medium for solar energy.

But the key is that H2 is not an energy source. It is an energy carrier.

 

Eh, maybe. Hydrogen conversion is about 80% efficient. Upon combustion it is under 38% efficient; closer to 30. So for fuel purposes, it is about 24% efficient. If instead you store the electricity in a battery to power an electric car, we find about 80% efficiency. So there is a huge loss by going to fuel instead of electricity. And this assumes the solar panel is as efficient as standard industrial processes.

The biggest problem with H2 is storage and transfers. We don't have the infrastructure to support a hydrogen economy. So it would be a HUGE transition to make hydrogen available. This is the beauty of alternative fuels from algae. It is already compatible with the existing energy infrastructure. But not to worry, you can make H2 from algae.

Note that the article says "It can produce up to 250 liters of hydrogen gas a day". Without knowing the pressure, that doesn't tell us anything. It could be 5 or 10% efficient.

 

Well, I'd say that was oxygen. Burning is oxidation. A wood fire is oxidizing the carbon. Rust on iron comes from oxidizing the iron.

I agree that the problems with hydrogen have to do with storage and transportation. But, storage and transportation are really all that hydrogen has to offer, too.

Electricity has a problem in storage and transportation, too. Transmission wires are expensive, ugly and lose significant energy. Batteries are polluting, expensive and don't hold much. So, it's no wonder that we keep looking.


I think the OP application was cool in that it produced hydrogen directly (good, because all conversions lose energy in the process), there was a substantial local use that doesn't require transportation and the need for storage is somewhat limited by the application.

 

True.

Of course, petroleum has other serious issues. It's a method of mining ancient carbon and putting that carbon into the atmosphere by the gigaton, where it will stay for a long time.

 

Sure, I've worked hard most of my life to help us get off of petroleum. But in the end, everything on earth is solar powered. So the definition of an energy carrier vs an energy source, is a bit nebulous. But unlike oil, we can't just pump hydrogen out of the ground. We have to make it.

There was an interesting project, I believe near Las Vegas, that was going to use concentrated solar light to crack methane, with pure hydrogen, and pure carbon dust as byproducts. I don't know if it ever got off the ground or not. The beauty being that it takes far less energy to crack, than does water, and we have an abundance of natural gas [methane].

 

The reason I don't accept that positioning concerning the source and methods by which oil was created is that there is no ongoing process that comes anywhere close to closing the loop.

The oil we drill started being created 300 to 400 million years ago - hundreds of times longer ago than mankind!

There is NOTHING we could possibly do that would have us all staying alive, yet replacing that oil reserve at the rate we're depleting it.

So, what we're doing is mining carbon - just as much as if we were mining gold or iron or anything else we mine.

 

I wasn't arguing otherwise. I don't why you think I am. But we can make new oil. Guess where a large percentage of the oil comes from? Ancient algae. It far more than animal and large plant life accounts for the oil we burn today. It captured carbon in the atmosphere as it grew, sank to the ocean floor, and was finally driven underground through plate tectonics; eventually making the planet suitable for human life.

Rather than mining trapped carbon from ancient algae by drilling for petroleum, we can grow fuel today, yielding a net 0 addition of carbon to the atmosphere. We have closed the loop.

Algae converts solar energy directly to fuel oil.

 

Oh damn - I forgot about your comments on algae. If that scales, it sounds good to me!

And, sorry to make my post sound that negative. It's really a minor point that I probably shouldn't have even mentioned.

 

No problem. I thought you were arguing a matter of definitions but wasn't sure.

Note also, I made several late edits in my previous post.

I was truly losing hope. In one way or another, I have worked most of my life to help end our reliance on petroleum. I studied physics in part for the same reason. I needed to understand energy. But there came a point where I understood the limitations of all options well enough to see a big problem. We didn't have a good solution. Even if we pulled the plug on nuclear power and let the industry run amok, it would take far more time than we have. When you compare oil energy to nuclear power, it would take a hell of a lot of nuclear power plants to replace oil. And there isn't enough money anywhere to build them. And you have to completely rewire the country and convert all autos to electric, Then you have large trucks, ships, and the entire aviation industry.

There was simply no good solution. There were no viable options to replace oil. And if the climate experts are right, then we had no hope. But then I learned about the work done in the Aquatic Species Program, through the Department of Energy, and the potential for algae fuels to replace oil. I worked the problem for years. I started a company and put together a team that include two noted experts in fuels and land use. Beyond a doubt it was doable. But it was going to take far more money than any small company could manage. This was a problem for the Exxon's of the world. But beyond a doubt, it can be done. Since then, BP, Exxon, and a few other large companies, as well as DARPA, have run with the ball.

But most importantly, there is a solution in hand. And the fix is only about $2 a gallon away. Algae fuels should be price competitive at the pump soon. When I started on this, it was about $30 a gallon. Now some companies are claiming to be at or near the $5 mark.

And MIT was working on getting hydrogen from algae.

Thanks to Jimmy Carter's Department of Energy, we have a means to ending our reliance on oil for good.

 

Another interesting direction! I love that it takes pollution and turns it into something useful!

Plus, a chance to listen to Alan Alda!

 

Yeah, that was from Scientific American Frontiers, I believe.

Note that while this is a great transition technology, if the flue gases were coming from algae fuels in the first place, it would be net 0. So it is only a limited fix for a limited time. Eventually it will all be net-0 for carbon. And algae scrubbing systems could make industrial emissions control profitable.

One large company that got into algae fuels too early, successfully shifted their resources entirely to algae purification systems, for contaminated water.

 

Yes, I did notice that.

However, that's still great. We have a LOT of carbon burning power plants today, and I don't believe we will be off oil and possibly even coal (at some percent) for a long time.

I'm not one for total purity in every solution when they make so much sense as this one.

 

2H2+O2=2H20

Water.. Not CO2

250 liters a day is claimed from a 4 x 6 foot panel???

I am skeptical it is a trick

I guess I shouldn`t smoke a ciggarette in a farm of them

 

It suposedly draws hydrogen from the moisture in the air

I have not watched the video.. It is easy to make bubbles with any gas

This has to be a hoax.. If it is true.. damn our problems are solved

Yes.. We would have abundant combustible fuel for vehicles.. or we would have as much hydrogen as needed erternally to charge your Tesla Model Y

I am just more skeptical the more I think about it.. It is way too simple.

If they exist.. I want one and I will convert an ATV to run off it

 

250 liters per day of gas does not seem very much to me to make it viable

 

That's an issue with every alternative to fossil fuels like gasoline.

Hydrogen can be liquified and allow fuel cells to propel vehicles to ranges equal to that of gasoline and diesel. Protecting those hydrogen fuel tanks is a piece of cake.

Hydrogen fuel cells can also be installed in every home and business. Given it's abundance, hydrogen, IMO, will be the primary source of generating energy in the future.