some thoughts on critical race theory

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Rampart, Nov 8, 2021.

  1. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

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    i've had better things to think about than race in america, but here we are. those of you who weighed in on the "only democrats care about race " thread are welcome not to care about this thread either.

    "race" among humans is a cultural construct. biology is minimal. the ancestors of african americans are the same "ol' masters" as the ancestors of the southern white elite.

    this recognition that we are 1/2 cousins should be a unifying influence, but if you have ever been in a family you might recognize some dysfunctionality. this is something to overcome, as families can as we grow and mature.

    i have seen the chain e mails of classes where young children are divided by arbitrary characteristics, such as "blondes are the slaves and brunettes are the masters" for some kind of exercose.

    here is one where the "masters" and "slaves" were chosen randomly (but the black kid still ended up a slave)

    School apologizes after black student made 'slave' - Minor Topics (imperfectparent.com)

    no study of american history can ignore slavery or segregation, and should certainly include the horrors and degradation endured by the slaves, but exercises that include role playing the horror and degradation are inappropriate. if this ever happens it should stop.

    but is that "critical race theory?" we seem to disagree on this, and laws passed should specifically define what they are banning.

    then there is the book banning. morrison's "beloved?" really? i consider "huckleberry finn" to be the great american novel, certainly in anybody's top five. (with moby dick, the great gatsby, slaughterhouse 5 and grapes of wrath) banned? really? because twain wrote, accurately, the way 19th century white men talked?

    we no longer talk that way or think that way, nor should we.

    finally, parents certainly should have interest and input in their children's education.

    1. children do lie, but even more often they tell their parents what they want to hear. if your child gets the impression that you want to hear that ms grundy told he he was an "oppressor" you will hear it. if he thinks you want to hear where the teacher touched him ("show me on the doll") he will point all over thnat action figure until he sees the shocked reaction from you. .

    2. teachers will talk to parents. call her. schedule a conference. join the pta. screaming at the school board (whose major responsibility is money) seems over the top.
     
  2. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

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  3. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Well spoken! Rehashing past deeds and guilting those who had no hand in it is as noxious as whitewashing it. Yes, teach our history, warts and all, but also teach how far we've come from the past, the accomplishments we've made....are we perfect, no....are we better than we were, decidedly so.
     
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  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You really need to get off the idea that the parents are complaining about history. They aren't. They are upset with schools teaching political ideology. A couple of examples. One mother had her six year old daughter ask if it is true that she was born evil because she is white. Her mother asked where she heard that and the answer was her teacher. One high school math teacher I heard interviewed just today explained that he only has about 10 percent of his time to teach math. The rest of the time is spent teaching political ideology required by the school district. Parents just want kids to be taught academic subjects including history and even the history of slavery.

    American students in public schools are not getting a useful education in a lot of places. It shows in the results of test scores compared with those of other countries.
     
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  5. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    History should be taught as it happened. Period. And it should include the atrocities as well as the victories. Comparing and contrasting it to present day is an exercise in having students think, not just memorize. I'm all for that. But like the OP, I do not support the exercises which pit one group against another. I also do not support the encouragement of shaming white students. The ideal outcome, for me, is for students to learn the history of our country with respect to slavery. Only when we understand our mistakes can we be certain not to repeat them. Are all white people racist? Of course not. But there are still a percentage of Americans who are. And if, as children, we can learn about the racism that existed and the horrible history that went along with it, we might see a future without racism.
     
  6. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    And those teachers should be fired if they are, indeed, indoctrinating children.
     
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  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You don't understand. They will be fired if they don't.
     
  8. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any evidence of teachers being fired for NOT shaming white kids?
     
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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No. The point was to point out that firing them for teaching political propaganda won't happen.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yep! National education policy should be determined based on what some mom says to Tucker Carlson that her six year old told her.

    Gawd! :roll:

    Unbelievable how the fear on the extreme right about children being taught in school not to be racist keeps growing. And the things they get from the white supremacist disinformation movement that so many people believe are becoming more and more absurd.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  11. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I’d love to see every single family in the country pull their kids out of public schools. Most public schools are now stinking, rotting corpses of bureaucratic incompetence. Put them out of their misery.
     
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  12. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What white supremacist disinformation? The left says they’re not teaching CRT, so why are they upset when people demand they stop teaching something they claim not to be teaching?

    If you’re white, maybe you don’t mind your kids being taught they’re evil, or all the world’s problems are due to White people. There are plenty of things for whites to be proud of, plenty.

    Instead of teaching black kids that they can only be victims of white people because that’s the way it’s been for hundreds of years, why don’t schools teach kids about all the great things blacks do as a whole. You can start off by naming some of those things right now and we can watch the list grow.
     
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  13. balancing act

    balancing act Well-Known Member

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    I am a teacher in high school. I doubt this red part is true. Be careful what you believe, as people will tell you what they think rather than what they know.
     
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  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pay attention! CRT is not the same as teaching kids not to be racist. Nor is it what the post I responded to was referencing. Though white supremacists love it when people confuse the two things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Probably not true in your school district. This was a teacher that was interviewed on TV. I can't imagine why he would have lied.
     
  16. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

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    i am highly skeptical of the first anecdote, and would be very interested in knowing what "political ideology" is being required by the "school district" in the second that a math teacher is allowing to interfere with his primary purpose. he should call his union.

    the first girl, by the way, is born evil because she is a daughter of eve tempted by the snake and conceived in original sin. i'm sure a semester or 2 at parochial school would straighten that misunderstanding right out.

    teachers learn to use the socratic method to lead their students to their own conclusions. some of those conclusions are incorrect, which might require another round of teaching. many of those conclusions should lead to further thought, "indoctrination?" those are not good teachers.

    the best teachers learn from their students.
     
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  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that they are teaching children TO BE racist. Parents are up in arms based on what their kids tell them they learned in school. It isn't happening everywhere obviously but I've heard teachers say that the education system from top to bottom is loaded with political propaganda. There is nothing good about political propaganda in school unless one is studying political propaganda. Not important for a geometry or english class.
     
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  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Let me guess. You know this because you heard some soccer mom, or some Trumpist teacher tell it Tucker Carlson, right?
     
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  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I just report what I hear from interviews of educators on TV. Perhaps those being interviewed are lying but I don't see why they would. Parents are downright angry at some school board meetings. Why waste time getting angry at a school board meeting if you think your kids are being educated properly. Who could possibly care more about children than their parents?
     
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  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No.
     
  21. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Excellent points. Children should be taught to think, not indoctrinated to regurgitate slogans and mantras.

    IMHO, this nation has worked from its founding towards equality; to my knowledge support for slavery has never been a nationwide position. Or even a strong minority position. People are far from perfect; yes some of the Founding Fathers owned slaves; but also worked to end the practice.

    From the mid-1700s a strong and vocal abolishionist movement was forming in the north. Trans-ocean slave trade was outlawed early in the 19th century as was slave owner in many northern states. The Constitution had provisions to reduce the power of southern states in Congress. Compromises were made to limit the spread of slavery as states were added. a

    And, we fought a long and bloody war to end slavery.

    Does that mean everything is now perfect? Nope. There are still many remnants of post civil war racism, but they're fading away. No white/black restrooms, water fountains or places of business. Blacks have risen to positions of prominent in virtually every field of endeavor: politics, business, sports, arts, entertainment and academics.

    IMHO, we won't achieve the progress we desire if we continue to frame the situation in the CRT vision of blacks as victims and whites as oppressors. Black leaders, REAL LEADERS, not black hustlers, need to study the traits and habits of successful blacks and take steps to inculcate those broadly into the community. Make people like Colin Powell, rather than Tupak Shukar heroes and role models.
     
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  22. balancing act

    balancing act Well-Known Member

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    People exaggerate all the time for unknown reasons. I have no way of knowing the "truth", but I find it very hard to believe that a math teacher in any district is forced to spend 90% of the time pushing a non-math agenda. My bet is that he is mad about something, there are a lot of "rules" to teaching in a high school not present in a college setting, and sometimes it rubs teachers the wrong way. Most teachers have no interest in indoctrinating children, unless it involves study habits or behavior issues.
    Sorry, I don't want to be confrontational, but too many posters here on this board seem to have these inaccurate ideas that they have been brainwashed with in their head about what is going on in schools. Trying to "keep it real" as the saying goes.
     
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  23. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Well, kinda difficult for me to have a conversation on the topic if you are simply offering your view rather than evidence.
     
  24. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree - teaching the history of the country with respect to slavery should not translate into painting people as victims and oppressors in today's world. And there are many, many great Black Americans who rose above their circumstances and made huge strides for themselves and their communities. But picking one type of hero (Powell) and denigrating another type (Tupac) goes against the whole idea of what you've already stated. Tupac was responsible for the rapid rise of a new musical genre and through the honesty of his lyrics inspired many artists (Black and White). We can't all be Generals or politicians or doctors.
     
  25. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

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