Spain's fighting back against referendum as we speak.

I doubt they want to leave the EU. They just don't want to be part of spain.

 

Well... right wing christian spain just beat the crap out of around 800 people for wanting to vote.


Seriously doubt they want to be part of that kind of spain.

 

This is why WE keep our government in check:



And are ever vigilant about keeping our government confined to their Constitutional mandate that we grant them. WE have inherent power, OUR government has granted power, from us.

Spain does not have our deep Constitutional traditions and this is why our Constitutional traditions are so important.

 

Some food for thought

http://www.euronews.com/2017/09/29/six-charts-on-how-catalonia-compares-to-the-whole-of-spain

I can imagine the Catolonians are frustrated. They feel like they carry the country, because they do....

 

Here's more:

 

I'm not sure what the issues are, but its pretty clear who the bad guys are

 

Problem is with a population of 7.5 million, 29 thousand voters means nothing.

Been researching it for hours now and am flabberghasted.

This has gone on literally for like 600 years.

Catalan was basically (top theory I saw) a remnant of the Visigothic kingdom and I actually found wiki to have the most clear "line" in how the name came to be.

Gothland > Gothlandia > Gothalania > Cathalaunia > Catalonia

Definitely other theories of course, but that one looks the most likely to me. Fascinating history though, I am just getting started in my reading so if others (especially spaniards) would like to jump in please do.

Castille basically formed the group that finished off the "Reconquista", then solidified to create Spain. Catalan lost a bunch of wars and thus influence with Castille and finally trhough marriage they created Spain with Catalan in it.

Catalan has always had a different language, a much different culture and almost always a more productive society.

They were independent for a few hundred years until about 1500 where the marriage sealed the deal.

Since then, they have LITERALLY tried and failed a dozen or so times to create their own nation away from Spain. Franco Ferdinand banned the Catalan language and murdered their exiled governor in Vechee France.

Most of what I am reading makes it look like the majority of Spain has simply pinned down the minority in Catalan without their consent for generations.

 

Say what you will about Putin, but he'd do more work for the UK in three seconds than WillNot and CanNot have done in their entire lives!

 

He does. It's the Chechen who don't want to come out of the RF because without Russia they are nothing and nobody.

 

'Boris' and 'gravitas' are two words which should never appear in the same sentence.

 

Freedom comes from the barrel of a gun.

 

Yup, which is why so many people demand we keep our second ammendmnent rights

 

It's bad, it's brutal, its not as bad as under Franco.

Madrid did not act as forcefully as Franco would have. Franco would have sent in tanks and just killed people. The present Spanish response has been thuggish, but it was measured. Likewise, the response of the Catalan people and their representatives were also measured.

The Madrid government is constitutionally required to preserve the unity of Spain. The Catalan government has obliged itself to act upon the results of the referendum within 48 hours.

There is a problem: Spain’s democratic constitution of 1978, which was approved by more than 90% of Catalan voters, gave wide autonomy to the regions but affirmed “the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation”. Only the Spanish parliament can change the constitution. -- The Economist

[T]he regional [Catalan] Parliament has committed to making the result binding within 48 hours, which could translate any approval for a Catalan republic into a unilateral declaration of independence. Under Spanish law, however, the national government could still invoke emergency powers to take full administrative control of Catalonia. -- NYTimes, Sept 26, 2017

What happens how is anyone's guess.

The European Union has steadfastly taken Madrid's side. Separatism cannot be allowed to prosper while the EU is trying to centralize everything. It sets a bad precedent.

Jean-Claude Piris, the former director general of the EU Council’s legal service, poured cold water on Catalonia’s plot to hold an independence referendum.

The Frenchman warned the EU would not welcome an independent Catalonia as a member state and called on Brussels to speak out. -- Express, June 3, 2017

Today:

[T]he European Union remained conspicuously silent on the police tactics, which saw masked officers smash their way into polling stations and forcibly remove ballot boxes. -- The Telegraph,Oct 2, 2017

One Catalan politician has finally spoken up to get angry at the EU for their silence.

Silence from the European Union in the face of a violent referendum in Spain has been condemned with one furious politician saying he no longer wants to be European. -- The Daily Express -- October 2, 2017

Another Catalan noted:

Another said: “Do not call me neither spanish nor european any more ... I M CATALAN !!!” --The Daily Express, October 2, 2017

The centralizing bureaucrats of Brussels do not want independent nations.

The Catalan independence referendum is a much bigger issue for the EU than Brexit -- The Independent, September 30, 2017

And one Scots Observer finally put all the pieces together.

“The EU want a fascist United States of Europe. viva Catalan.” -- The Daily Express

Catalonia is not merely a problem for Spain, but for all of the European bureaucrats. In order for Catalonia to be free, Catalonia may not only have to defy Madrid, but also the European Union. No longer will the Catalans have the option of trading subservience to Madrid to subservience to Brussels as an option. If Catalonia wants to be free, she may have to decide for total freedom.

If nothing else comes out of this referendum, that alone will be worth it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/10/what_catalonia_tells_us.html

 

LMAO...So you think gangsters have gravitas, eh?

 

Here;s more:

 

Things are moving fast:

 

Practically no government on Earth recognises the right of the people to peacefully determine their own fate. This referendum has simply forced Spain to take this reality to its logical conclusion.

The EU is no different, they just use slightly more covert means such as denying the result.

 

The Feds would not allow that to happen here either. They didn't the last time it happened.

 

At the limit, I can understand Madrid's (and the King's) reaction. But what really disgust me, is the EU's reaction, who will likely refuse to recognize Catalonia, but also consider that an Independant Catalonia will not be part of the EU, whereas they already are. They are getting out of their way to enforce something that's wrong.

I don't have much of an opinion about should Catalans be independant; for me, they are the same people, who share the same culture, history, language etc, as other Spaniards. But I do believe in the right their citizens have to chose their political future. But what the EU has done is beyond the pale; I used to support them - not anymore, because of this.

 

What's good for Peter is also good for Paul.

 

Yep - that's what I deduced; It's not that Catalonia is any different from the rest of Spain; it's just that they are in a better economic posture (at the present), and wish to enjoy it without sharing with their co-citizens. It is economical in nature, not cultural, like we see in north Italy.

I am not for this type of rather plutocratic form of division. Just imagine the richest parts of the US wanting to be independant, because money, you see.

And yet I must support Catalonia in their democratic process, no matter my other opinions - such are my ideals.

 

Quite true. It is a right that exists only in theory. In practice, strength of arms rule.

 

God created men, but it was colonel Colt who made them equals.

Men created nations, but it was Oppenheimer who made them equals.

 

That's true. I think this might be different. We will probably see with the CA issue. If CA tries to leave, I expect the Red areas to demand to be able to stay, so let LA and the Bay Area leave.

But if several Left-wing cities try to leave at the same time, that might be different.

 

The right of people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (commonly regarded as a jus cogens rule), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms.[1][2] It states that a people, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference.[3]

The concept was first expressed in the 1860s, and spread rapidly thereafter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination