Sustaining Capitalism in a Finite World

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Ignacio Cabero, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism is simply sustaining industry and trade in the private sector minimizing government intervention/control. The products of industry and trade are never static, and at the business level don't really require 'increasing accumulation'. All the individual business must do is obtain a portion of the marketplace large enough to provide sustainable profits. While new products/services appear others vanish all caused by myriad reasons. If all the demand has been met then at that point capitalism and the economy will have some challenges...
     
  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    ...and KEEP "a portion of the marketplace large enough to provide sustainable profits." And this has been done historically by protecting the market share one has and to stay on top or get on top of the share distribution by out-doing the competition. The competition grows. So all competitors must struggle to grow to keep up. In capitalism, if you stand still you will get run over by the competition.

    This is basic!!
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The introduction of the iPhone for example took huge chunks of demand from the other 100 cell phone companies, as well as piqued interest and sales from new buyers. iPhone is the winner of market share and those other 100 companies are the losers. In another 5-10 years it will something new taking hunks of the marketplace...
     
  4. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That's true, but that is not the standard threat facing the majority of businesses. Certainly there are several different kinds of threats businesses face from competitors, and the oldest, best known, most common is probably that of market share. And you have to admit that businesses tend to grow or fail, so growth is the norm in order to manage the threat of lost market share. We've all seen it.
     
  5. james M

    james M Well-Known Member

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    OMG!!! The iphone is a threat exactly because it took market share!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Y E S !!!! AND WHAT HAPPENED TO COMPETITORS? WHAT WAS THE BUSINESS THREAT THEY FACED AND LOST?

    Sheesh! You really no how to pretend you're the dullest knife in the drawer.
     
  7. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    All the business needs to do is to make enough profit to remain viable. There's nothing that says it needs to constantly increase its profits over time.
     
  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Oh, sounds so easy. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to see such businesses fail. Whole towns across the country have seen "Mom&Pop" stores out-competed by large corporations and get shut down or bought out. Local "general stores", small corner grocery stores. ... even my brother-in-law who inherited a very successful jewelry findings shop tells me the large, cheap factory corporations are taking all his business even though the competition produces mostly cheap costume jewelry and he's very close to having to shut down because he can't make payroll and still make any profit.

    Your words sound all nice and logical but the reality is somewhere else.
     
  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Thought provoking stuff. I ran some calculations on that. If you give each person a volume that is 2 feet square and 6 feet high, you could fit just 1.8 billion people in a cube 1.07km on each side. How do you get 4 times that many people in that cube? I guess you give small children just enough to fit them and likewise for everyone else.

    All in all it strikes me as a pointless exercise. But I did it anyway.

    I prefer my 2 acres.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  10. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    So a WSDE would face these same challenges? Grow faster than the competition or go out of business? Look for ways to eliminate competition?
     
  11. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for admitting you were mistaken.
     
  12. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

    You didn't answer the question. Does a WSDE face the same challenge as other businesses in that it must beat its competitors in order to survive?
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Of course business wants to grow...but they are 100% always fending off competitors and fighting to maintain market share. Companies who ignore technology, business options, and get complacent can be caught off guard. Unless a company is producing a product which does not change much over the decades, they must pay attention to technology and be innovative both with their products and processes. Why does Sears have so many issues; my guess is poor management, a lack of branding, no longer unique, and each day they lose more and more market share. They will never get it back once the slide starts...competitors are vicious...
     
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    A problem with your premise here is in my town we have a nickname for the Ace Hardware store...we call it 'the bank' because when you go in there you leave all of your money! They have the highest prices and it's based on 'opportunity sales' because larger stores are 15 miles away. Ace Hardware has done nothing to compete with Home Depot and others...
     
  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Right. I have an Ace Hardware in my town and there's one in the city not far from a Home Depot, yet Ace charges much more, sometimes 50% more, than Home Depot. It's a hardware convenience store, and they stock some things you have a hard time finding at Home Depot and elsewhere.

    And yet the majority has to grow or fail.
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Any enterprise just needs to be profitable in order to survive. It doesn't need to grow ad infinitum.
     
  17. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yes there are exceptions. I said the majority. And part of that has to do with debt. A corporation borrows money to finance upgrades but they need to pay dividends and keep stock rising so the CEO's options keep increasing in value. So they seek greater sales, profit, and markets. There are numerous reasons that most work to grow. This is one of them.
     
  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the point is that no enterprise is forced to grow. It's a choice.
     
  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    No, since the prime directive is to make a profit, corporations tend to seek market domination or at least growth. The fact that most do means it is important. Necessary? Maybe not, but it's the rule. Go find me a financial report that says it was a good year and sales, profits, and market share all remained stable and unchanged.
     
  20. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    It's a choice to become a publicly traded C corporation. No business is forced to do so. Any business can choose to achieve profitability and stop growing at that point.
     

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