Taliban taking over Afghanistan again

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by kazenatsu, Aug 14, 2021.

  1. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For all of last 7 months Biden was busy canceling Trump and his orders; Afghanistan is the only Trump’s plan Biden could do nothing about.

    Gimmi a break :wall:
     
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  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Biden party line is that the Afghans let us down. Actually, we let them down.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - where was our intel? We need to know!

    Interesting point about the government there. I don't know how early they ran, but it may have been beyond the point where there was a chance of saving Kabul.

    I don't believe the government needed to stay there and be executed, but there is sure a lot said about how bad that government was.
     
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it is one or the other on that.

    In what way was Biden saying they let us down?
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The whole discussion has been framed as a collapse of Afghan will, justifying the US withdrawal. Actually, the US withdrawal caused the Afghan collapse.
     
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  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Biden yanked the rug out from under them. Between that and doing the same to our NATO allies, it looks like a deliberate act of sabotage perhaps do to his rapidly advancing dementia. He needs to be relieved. That his orders were carried out without resignations shows a deeper rot.

    The Rotten Edifice Revealed: In Afghanistan, the technocratic legitimacy of our administrative masters is being exploded.
    "the question of legitimacy"
    Our representative democracy is a superior system to these technocratic idiot clowns.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I certainly don't pitch it that way.

    I've stated clearly that the USA implemented a plan that left Afghanistan dangling in the wind.

    We did an absolute CRAP job of being on top of what Afghanistan was capable of doing in terms of its own defense.

    We went from 13,000 troops in Feb 2020 to 2,500 troops on Jan 15 (as stated by our military).

    We didn't include Afghanistan in our planning.

    And, we dropped the Afghan military like a hot rock, leaving them to be slaughtered.

    We couldn't have done a more thorough job of losing Afghanistan if losing Afghanistan had been our full intent.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The rug was FULLY yanked before Biden was president.

    Biden is the one who STOPPED removing troops.

    What he didn't do was to move those troops BACK into Afghanistan.

    Do you actually think it was Trump's plan that we lose Afghanistan to the Taliban?
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    From the cite your posted:
    Trump left 2,500 troops in Afghanistan on Jan 15, 2021.

    There were tens of thousands who would need to be evacuated if Trump's plan failed. And, it failed spectacularly.

    There is NO CHANCE that a US contingent that small could collect the tens of thousands of evacuees that were spread across Afghanistan as the Taliban rapidly advanced across all fronts throughout Afghanistan.

    That contingent wasn't enough to hold the Kabul airport, let alone taking on long range mercy missions across the country.

    I find your post, YOUR willingness to project that kind of CRAP about our military to be not just ridiculously wrong, but absolutely disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then we are in agreement.
     
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  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    ‘DISASTER ON EVERY LEVEL:’ Biden Closes Kabul Airport and Orders Commercial Airlines to Aid the Evacuation.

    [​IMG]

    "Kabul: Taliban militants are now starting to charge people for "escorts," for safe passage to the airport. The price ranges from $1,000 to $3,000, per person."

    "ISIS has issued a warning to Americans looking to leave Afghanistan. This precipitated a warning from the U.S. embassy for Americans to avoid going to the airport."

    "Do you want “worse”? How about the Pentagon not knowing what the State Department is doing?"

    CLUELESS: Pentagon "Not Aware" the US Embassy Told Americans Not to Go to Kabul Airport

    "This is a complete disaster on every single level."

    [​IMG]
    Biden Administration In Complete Disarray. Not Communicating With Allies Or Even Each Other.​

    "ISIS" wants to "send a suicide bomber into the densely packed crowds at the airport."
    That's the Pentagon's view.

    The "president shut the airport in order to allow the bureaucrats to catch up with the paperwork."
    "The situation is deteriorating every day. Thousands of Americans still need to be evacuated and before it was shut down, huge cargo planes capable of holding hundreds of evacuees were taking off from the airport with only a handful of people on board."

    "Evacuations continued from the Kabul airport on Saturday after a backlog of evacuees caused an 8 hour pause in flights on Friday. The subsequent chaos caused empty flights last night, with two flights carrying just seven and eight people."

    8hr pause then these massive jets are taking off with only 7 or 8 people on them?

    "Mr. President, shouldn’t all this have been done before you allowed the Taliban to walk into Kabul?"

    No one is in charge.

    We have a crisis and a president who is unable to function, and as a result, the entire executive branch and our military has become dysfunctional.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Just identifying individual evacuees and finding countries willing to accept them is a major task.

    The USA has shown little interest in accepting our allies.

    Getting large numbers on airplanes is a great idea, but one also has to know who they are and where they are going.
     
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  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    FAKE NEWS RUNNING OUT OF LIES TO COVER BIDEN THE COMPLETE FU
    [​IMG]
    "Today the Times has published a four-alarm fire memo to Democrats that Biden needs to get his act together, or be cut loose: As Biden Faces a Political Crisis, His Party Looks On in Alarm With President Biden facing a political crisis."

    Their constant lies are complicit in Biden's election.

    Their fear is that Dems have blundered enough to finally lose control of the Federal Government:
    He has bungled and repeatedly fumbled over and over again. Further, enough with the lies about "America's longest war". We have no peace treaty with North Korea and we have thousands of troops there preserving the stalemate. We introduced troops there 70 years ago and we have had a security presence there ever since keeping our cold state of war from going hot.
    It hasn't "undermined" it, it has shown it to be a complete and total lie, no more trustworthy than Joe's word "as a Biden".
    Soon you'll view "just under 50%" as the good old days.
     
  14. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Seems that the Afghans let themselves done.........as did the the US. The point is that Both are responsible...............but because it was the US that started this war, changed its objectives more often than needed...giving mixed messages to the Afghans .........the buck stops with the US. In the twenty years ......the afghans became to dependant on the US for security etc. and now they want to be rescued by the US. Some serious miscalculation on the american part..........(stating the obvious)
     
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  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    IOW, MSM UK. ;-)
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it a little overly tough to blame Afghanistan for not adequately pursuing OUR plans for THEIR country, a country that didn't even believe in the concept of a government covering their entire country and that saw our ideas of government as those of a foreign invader and tied to deep and abiding religious heresy?

    Besides, the government WE installed was just flat out criminal. Calling it a kleptocracy only touches the surface.
     
  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I suspect that if their were a free vote, with no coercion, the Afghan government we sponsored would outpoll the Taliban.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right about that in the larger cities.

    But, they needed to be ready to fight and die for it. I'm not so sure they were there yet. And, they needed to be fully prepared for that kind of war. Their weakness says something about their commitment.

    I'm almost always on the side against war. But, the idea of walking away from Afghanistan like we did is not something I can favor. We made a commitment and paid heavily for it.

    Now, we just walked away without even DISCUSSING it - by mistakenly thinking our job was done, or ignoring the fact that it wasn't done, or whatever.

    We don't even have an answer to why American did that.
     
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    They did fight and die. We deserted them.
     
  20. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Good points !! Let's face it.........this was wrong from the onset. .It made no logical sense to INVADE a foreign nation because one man and his band of terrorists were supposed to be there.

    I know.......too late for that. But the real concern is that the US fals to learn from his own history.

    I am not yet prepared to let the AFghan "leadership "of the hook..........They had TWENTY years to get their act together.........and define what THEY wanted. They allowed themselves to be manipulated by the US...and whomever they choose to listen to.
     
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  21. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    It's hard enough to change oneself. It's impossible to change another person.

    When they get tired of being afraid and abused, they WILL do something about it.
     
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  22. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Indeed... And that makes it impossible to try and change another Nation.

    Nation building in a totally different culture is foolhardy at best
     
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  23. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I have a brilliant idea. How about we mind our business and build OUR nation back up? ;-)
     
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  24. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Now , you are talking sperb sense. !!! ...
     
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  25. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Banned

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    The US loves to go to war in order to get war trophies (war refugees). It is like a national hobby that the US has been doing since the Mexican American War. The US will never fight a war for any reason in West Africa but all other areas around the world are fair game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021

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