The actual planning of the Pentagon attack from a truther's POV...

Discussion in '9/11' started by Gamolon, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    I do not blame you for one second that you dont trust the U.S. Government, to any extent. However there are some data regarding 9/11 as historically true. Most of 9/11 discussion however as saturated right off the bat with dis-formation and out right lies form people in the Truther community (for it was truthers like the 9/11 victim families who opened the 9/11 Commission). To dispel those seeking truth, send in the trojan horse. It has worked sir. Just to add for you Bob, the planes are not the conspiracy, it was made to be the conspiracy because once you get rid of the planes and what was said on them....you truly rid of the actual conspiracy of what was in the planes and what was said.....which is exactly why the phenomena of "no planes": was created in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Created?

    Since you have advertised yourself as a 'researcher' and researchers deal with the facts as they stand not how they want them to be, I posted incontrovertible evidence that the several points concerning the pentcon incident are simply false, and physically impossible. Giving you the benefit of a doubt, since debunkers typically ignore anything that demolishes the official conspiracy theory I assume you may have simply missed the post so here is your change to address it and admit the poles are a fraud, which is what a good researcher would be forced to do.

    I look forward to your providing me with:

    8 main landing gear wheels,
    2 main landing gear struts and carriages
    2 rolls engines

    and at a minimum a 'believable' explanation:

    how the vertical stab can smash into windows and not break them,
    and how it became the invincible light pole mower.

    when we know or at least I assume 'we' know how fragile those wings are:



    Please show the full official chain of custody records of the debris and associated 'official' determinations.

    so well give you a chance, see how you get with this. Hopefully you can do better than the mindless parrots and prevail where they have miserably failed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  3. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, perhaps not. By the lack of transparency and their lengthy track record one's initial position should instantly be coverup.

    Everyone? No, some eyewitnesses have made that claim, others dispute that a large plane impacted the Pentagon.

    That's being very generous. Post #195 contains 29 major points about the 9/11 Commission and their report.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...mission-scam-exposed-in-all-its-glory.495859/

    Agreed, 9/11 happened, there were over 3,000 casualties and heavy destruction to many buildings in lower Manhattan and the Pentagon, that's all historically true. That's about the extent of my agreement with the OCT. The rest is all disputable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  4. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    1. There is absolutely no lacking of transparency regarding the plane impacting the Pentagon. Everyone that was in the vicinity of the building saw the plane crash into it. There were dozens upon dozens of state and federal agencies that were involved in the search and rescue, they found debris and remains which belonged to Flight 77.

    2. 87 eyewitness accounts of people witnessing an American Airlines Boeing crash into the pentagon. A Boeing is not a small plane. I will again list the testimonies here:

    https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.pdf

    3. 3. The 9/11 Commission certainly had not accessed every single bit of information, since all data collected was viewed first by Phillip Zelikow who should not have been the Commission head.
    4. Then we have something we both can work on and discuss on the further issues rarely brought up in 9/11 circles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  5. wist43

    wist43 Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that drones can be painted with an airliner paint scheme no??

    And that's exactly what some witnesses described. A small plane, not a commercial liner

    Beyond that, and as I said before, it is all but impossible for a commercial airliner to fly at those speeds, execute that turn, accelerate out of that turn to achieve the known velocity at impact - all at sea level.

    Commercial airliners can achieve those speeds at 30,000 ft - which is what they are designed to do; but 530 mph at sea level is well beyond their VMO.

    All of that is before you get to the "debris" (or lack thereof), the holes blown thru the inner reinforced ring walls, etc.

    And furthermore, as for the camera footage, it is not "false" as you said that the 85 camera angles were not from the Pentagon. The FBI collected 85 recordings from sources surrounding the Pentagon on that day.

    Furthermore, is it not ludicrous to accept that the Pentagon itself, the single most important building to our military and national defense, would have only 2 remote cameras with obstructed views of fully 1/5 of the facility??

    Believers in the OCT, like yourself, accept this as plausible??
     
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  6. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    I will answer each point wist43...with your points in quotations.

    #1. "You do realize that drones can be painted with an airliner paint scheme no?"

    In the case of American Airlines Flight 77, no. It maintained constant contact with Indianapolis Air Traffic Control (ATC). The Flight Data recorder box that was recovered showed no deviation from its flight path, along with ATC also maintaing its path. There is also zero evidence for your claim that Flight 77 was a drone.

    #2. "And that's exactly what some witnesses described. A small plane, not a commercial liner."

    87 eyewitnesses saw a Boeing American Airlines plane, not a small plane. The debris recovered also suggests the plane was a Flight 77 and the impact hole also suggests it was a Boeing.

    #3. "And furthermore, as for the camera footage, it is not "false" as you said that the 85 camera angles were not from the Pentagon. The FBI collected 85 recordings from sources surrounding the Pentagon on that day."

    That is incorrect sir. The 85 cameras were from cameras in New York City and Washington, collected by the FBI. The videos were released from an FOIA request under counsel representation Scott Bingham, Jacqueline Maguire (FBI PENNTTBOM) answered the request. Full listing of cameras below with Maguire letter.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080208102217/http://www.flight77.info/85videos.html

    #4. Furthermore, is it not ludicrous to accept that the Pentagon itself, the single most important building to our military and national defense, would have only 2 remote cameras with obstructed views of fully 1/5 of the facility??

    You are asserting that the West wall of the Pentagon is somehow important. Its not. Thus the lack of cameras capturing the plane impact is moot when you have eyewitnesses who saw the plane impact the building plus the debris and human remains of passengers found which belonged to Flight 77. This data was used to convict Zacarious Moussoui in 2006, i will link below the Prosecution Trial Exhibits where you can view some of the evidence from this impact site at your leisure.

    http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html

    #5. "Believers in the OCT, like yourself, accept this as plausible??"

    You assumed incorrectly that im for the Official Account given by the 9/11 Commission. There is much more to the account than just the basics of the day you know.
     
  7. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    So, we have a new set of people to paint the drone, a team to transport it somewhere and operate it. These would be aware of the target and would have no problems killing people in the Pentagon. The drone must be packed with explosives and of a size that convinces the vast majority of people who saw an airliner.

    Further, we now have the problem of disposing of the plane and the occupants in such a way as to create a DNA trail that doesn't look suspicious. Unless of course all the analysts of the DNA are in on this cast conspiracy that makes no sense whatsoever!

    These are 2 witnesses who saw it from some distance.

    http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/witnesses.html

    Your opinion on this matter, or the cherry picked quotes from the internet about this, is meaningless. The maximum speed of a 757 at sea level is way beyond the limit imposed by safety standards.


    Perfectly achievable. There are numerous examples online showing accurate simulation software doing just that.

    A nonsensical claim. The rapid descent aids the acceleration, the person flying the plane would not be too concerned about straining the engines or stressing the plane.

    Hogwash. VMO is not even remotely a factor the pilot would care about. VMO is the maximum airspeed at which an aircraft is certified to operate at!

    There is more than enough airplane debris, including 757 parts. The impact is fully consistent with speed and mass.

    Absolutely, let's look at YOUR alternative shall we?

    The plane smashed into the side of the Pentagon.

    Or, the bare bones:
    1. Setup fake explosions of poles, small buildings etc.
    2. Distribute plane parts all over the place.
    3. Do something to the real plane.
    4. Kill, dismember and burn all on board.
    5. Send body parts to Dover or deposit it at the Pentagon crash scene.
    6. Create false witnesses who will never admit their lies.
    7. Create fake DRONE and all the people it involves. Then it needs to look like a plane impact.
    8. Make sure nobody talks and it is all timed to perfection.
     
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  8. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe it was a drone that impacted AND a 757 that flew over or just a drone?
     
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Transparency has to do with OFFICIAL transparency (i.e. FBI, CIA, Pentagon, WH, etc.). They all participated in the 9/11 coverup in many ways. Nothing that comes from these sources is reliable.

    Even if that's true it does not dismiss contradictory eyewitness claims.

    Nothing about the 9/11 Commission and their "findings" is reliable and that, along with the NIST reports comprises the vast majority of the official account.

    Ok feel free to go for it. I started many different threads in this section of the forum, not just the one on the Pentagon. So far this is the only topic you're addressing and in full support of the official account. You claim you're skeptical of the official account but I haven't seen any post from you that significantly challenges it.
     
  10. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    #1. "They all participated in the 9/11 coverup in many ways. Nothing that comes from these sources is reliable."

    Please provide evidence that everyone in the FBI, CIA and Pentagon are in on the 9/11 cover-up.

    #2. "Even if that's true it does not dismiss contradictory eyewitness claims."

    Its true and it does make the eyewitnesses who claim to have seen a smaller plane mistaken about the size, especially from their distance.

    #3. "Nothing about the 9/11 Commission and their "findings" is reliable and that, along with the NIST reports comprises the vast majority of the official account."

    They committed to tens of thousands of personal interviews, that much you can say they did legitimately. However they certainly werent privvy to many documents and files and also some testimonies werent made available to the public.

    #4. "Ok feel free to go for it. I started many different threads in this section of the forum, not just the one on the Pentagon. So far this is the only topic you're addressing and in full support of the official account. You claim you're skeptical of the official account but I haven't seen any post from you that significantly challenges it."

    How about i start a conversation in a different thread which the 9/11 Commission never addresses and is in complete contradiction to just 4 planes being hijacked. The 9/11 operation was supposed to be bigger.
     
  11. wist43

    wist43 Well-Known Member

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    Well, as much as I would like to while away the hours discussing this topic - unfortunately it's back to work for me.

    So Bob, keep fighting the good fight. The rest of you... wake up.
     
  12. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    Nice to assume isn't it, especially when its from the safety of anonymity.
     
  13. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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  14. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  15. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    Yes, post from the dead site since 2014 regarding a group oif people who claim to behold the following position:

    That no Boeing crashed into the Pentagon, instead the plane every one saw was a drone and that it flew direcly over the Pentagon while the damage caused to the building was from planted explosives.

    This is of course, blatantly false and highly amusing. I must add, Aldo Marquis and Craig Ranke are frauds. Nothing they claimed about what happened at the pentagon is even remotely true. Nothing,
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  16. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

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    Color me surprised...
     
  17. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

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    Here's the whole interview.
    http://www.thepentacon.com/roberts

    Explain what he meant when he said this starting at the timestamp shown below.

    Timestamp: 2:56
    Interviewer: "And it was.. was he moving fast?"
    Roberts: "Oh it was moving extremely fast. It was like ah... maybe saw that aircraft maybe for like uh... a quick five seconds."
    Interviewer: "For a quick five seconds. But you definitely... and you saw it over the south parking lot? Over lane one..."
    Roberts: "In the south... was in the south parking lot over lane one."
    Interviewer: "Ok. Do... do you remember which direction it was headed?"
    Roberts: "Uh... coming from the uh... 27 side... 27 heading uh... uh... east towards DC coming from that area. Uh... it was the highway. If you were to come up 395 uh... north headed towards the Pentagon then you got off in south parking, you were like right there 'cause 395 went right into 27."
    Interviewer: "So from where... from when it headed away from the Pentagon, which direction was it heading?"
    Roberts: "From the... uh... can you repeat that one more time please?"
    Interviewer: "Yeah. When it was heading away from the Pentagon, this... this second plane... Do you remember...
    Roberts: "...Right..."
    Interviewer: "...which direction it was heading?"
    Roberts: "It was uh... it was heading um... back across 27 and it looks like... it appeared to me, I was in the south, and that plane was heading like uh... southwest coming out."

    According to the above interview, Roberts supposedly came outside 10 seconds AFTER the explosion and saw the aircraft flying FROM the 27 side where 395 went into 27 for about 5 seconds. It was HEADING EAST TOWARDS DC. He said a second plane was heading back southwest.
     
  18. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    As are policemen according to you. But only the ones who appear to back up your mad claims. If I created a site and called it Levelheadedthruthers.com does that mean it's full of level headed truthers!?

    They BOTH were far away from the event. Explained to you many times. Nothing makes it go away, but your failure to acknowledge maybe does in your head!

    Post reported for spamming. Not because you are "winning the debate" or because anyone is "cornered" or to "hide your evidence". Nobody is attempting to "thwart" you.

    It is simply disgraceful that you position yourself as a truth seeker, whilst ignoring detailed response after detailed response to identical posts that you make time and time again!

    The plane smashed into the side of the Pentagon.

    Or, the bare bones:
    1. Setup fake explosions of poles, small buildings etc.
    2. Distribute plane parts all over the place.
    3. Do something to the real plane.
    4. Kill, dismember and burn all on board.
    5. Send body parts to Dover or deposit it at the Pentagon crash scene.
    6. Create false witnesses who will never admit their lies.
    7. Create fake DRONE and all the people it involves. Then it needs to look like a plane impact.
    8. Make sure nobody talks and it is all timed to perfection.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  19. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I meant all these government agencies obviously, not everyone employed by them. But you knew that right? I pointed you to the proper thread where much of this is detailed and sourced.

    Whether there were mistaken or not wasn't my point obviously. But you knew that right?

    Absolutely not, there's not one thing I can say that I feel that has any sense of legitimacy about the 9/11 Commission and their report. But you also knew that from all your alleged research, right? This is also made evident in detail within the thread I pointed you to (in case you really haven't done the research as you claim).

    I started a thread on the 9/11 Commission and their report and pointed you to it, feel free to add anything you like to it. But if you'd rather, start your own, that's your prerogative.

    All you're doing is confirming my assessment of you as just another run of the mill OCT defender despite your claims denying to be one. But that's ok, you're just another of many in this forum.
     
  20. wist43

    wist43 Well-Known Member

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    Since most of you guys live in your moms basement you have unlimited time.

    As for me, I have 3 kids to raise and a business to run... have to pay those taxes so you guys can get your food stamps ;)

    Ciao
     
  21. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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  22. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    Since you are merely trolling and cannot hold a reasonable discussion without insulting, i will be putting you on ignore.
     
  23. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    #1. "I meant all these government agencies obviously, not everyone employed by them. But you knew that right? I pointed you to the proper thread where much of this is detailed and sourced."

    Well you were quite "vague" regarding who you thought is in the know, but i understand your point now and would agree to an extent."

    #2. "Absolutely not, there's not one thing I can say that I feel that has any sense of legitimacy about the 9/11 Commission and their report. But you also knew that from all your alleged research, right? This is also made evident in detail within the thread I pointed you to (in case you really haven't done the research as you claim)."

    But thats perfectly fine as well. You simply dont believe anything but your own beliefs which are quite vague at times.

    #3. "I started a thread on the 9/11 Commission and their report and pointed you to it, feel free to add anything you like to it. But if you'd rather, start your own, that's your prerogative."

    I will read it when i get home, as im on the road now.

    #4. "All you're doing is confirming my assessment of you as just another run of the mill OCT defender despite your claims denying to be one. But that's ok, you're just another of many in this forum."

    You stated this numerous times so far, its irrelevant actually.
     
  24. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The same can be said for anyone, including YOU.

    Yes and no. It's irrelevant from a 9/11 perspective but it is relevant from the perspective of any discussion about 9/11. And that is what we are doing here, discussing 9/11. I find most posters in this section of the forum either defend the official narrative or dispute/question it. It's very rare to find a poster who is neutral on the subject.
     
  25. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    #1. "The same can be said for anyone, including YOU."

    Exactly, however to refute any point i made regarding the Pentagon; All one needs to do is simply present conflicting evidence, not merely state ones disagreement.

    #2. "Yes and no. It's irrelevant from a 9/11 perspective but it is relevant from the perspective of any discussion about 9/11. And that is what we are doing here, discussing 9/11. I find most posters in this section of the forum either defend the official narrative or dispute/question it. It's very rare to find a poster who is neutral on the subject."

    Im a skeptic. Im not a truther nor debunker,. I dont adhere to the official account of the 9/11 commission....the plane impacts of 9/11 are just one very small area of the 9/11....i deal with the geo-political. Areas pre-9/11. So far most of these OP threads are basics arguments regarding WTC and Pentagon. Small potatoes.
     

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