The aftermath of Trump's acquittal in his second impeachment trial

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Feb 14, 2021.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You have made assumptions about precedents and their is no president for doing a presidential impeachment without CJ scotus present.
     
  2. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump's problems are just beginning. There are his problems N.Y. and Georgia.

    Now there is this.

    CNN reports, "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced in a letter to House Democrats on Monday plans for the creation of a "9/11-type commission" to investigate the January 6 attack on the US Capitol.

    "To protect our security, our next step will be to establish an outside, independent 9/11-type Commission to 'investigate and report on the facts and causes relating to the January 6, 2021 domestic terrorist attack upon the United States Capitol Complex,'" Pelosi wrote.

    "A commission of this nature would be established by a statute, passed by both chambers and signed into law by the President. The commission members would not be elected leaders and would be outside the government.

    A factor that many are interested in is, did Trump have any communication with the Pentagon? There were warnings. Why were they ignored. Why was there a delay in the National Guard response?

    The Defense Department is facing scrutiny over its role in the events that took place on Jan. 6 after the D.C. government and Capitol Police accused Pentagon officials of slow-walking an emergency call for National Guard reinforcements as rioters threatened to breach the capitol.

    Why did a security breakdown take place, leaving the Capitol all but defenseless against a marauding group of pro-Trump rioters?

    And this, according to CNN.

    "Former President Donald Trump and attorney Rudy Giuliani are being accused of conspiring with the far-right groups Proud Boys and Oath Keepers to incite the January 6 insurrection in a civil lawsuit filed Tuesday in federal court by the Democratic chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee.

    "The lawsuit, filed by Mississippi Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson in his personal capacity, is the first civil action filed against the former President related to the attack at the US Capitol and comes days after the Senate acquitted Trump in his impeachment trial.

    " If it proceeds, it would mean the former President and others would be subject to discovery and depositions, potentially exposing details and evidence that weren't released during the Senate impeachment trial."
     
  3. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    Well, I’ve given you 2 actual precedents. Pretending to I haven’t doesn’t change reality.
     
  4. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.

    You have a reading comprehension problem and I never said he was innocent. I stated you nor anyone else has any evidence that he incited anything and that IS A FACT. Which is why he was acquitted.
     
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  5. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is irrelevant to the FACT that there is no evidence

    Which is why you are screeching and presenting no argument. You cannot post any evidence.
     
  6. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Trump hadn't whined like a baby for months about fraud, and told his worshipers to stand by, and fight like hell, there is no insurrection. Period.

    He got people all riled up, sat back and enjoyed the show, refused to send help when requested... and then. "I take no responsibility at all."

    Bin Laden didn't fly the planes, so not guilty? LOL, yeah, sure.
     
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  7. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Whining is not inciting.

    He told no one to go storm the capitol and the law requires such specific actions to demonstrate incitement,.
     
  8. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure there is. He asked the crowd to encourage Pence to break the law. He's elected to enforce the law, not break it.
     
  9. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    No there is not and that is not specific language to incite any violence.

    you need to provide direct quote and not quote fragments out of context.
     
  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your mistake is in thinking using specific language to incite violence was a prerequisite for conviction. For instance, his illegal contact with GA officials to try to get them to change the vote in the state was included in the article of impeachment.
     
  11. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who opened Pandora's box?To be fair, Clintons impeachment was used as a political weapon with no concern for justice or what is best for the country. Dems set a new precedent that will be used against them when numbers allow. Both sides of the same ugly coin will continue to one-up the other. Lock-her-up lemmings had their turn to bleat and now its time for the lock-em-up lemmings to bleat their phrase.
     
  12. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So it is your contention that if Trump had conceded when appropriate, and had allowed transition on schedule, and hadn't had all these rallies claiming fraud, that the attack on the capitol would have happened anyway?

    LMAO - not a chance.
     
  13. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From his speech (my comments in brackets): "The Republicans have got to get tougher. You're not going to have a Republican Party if you don't get tougher. [As President he's the leader of the Republican Party. But, he doesn't use the word "We," it's "You."] They [Who is he talking about? Republicans?] want to play so straight. [What does "straight" mean here? Obey the law? He defines it in the next sentence.] They want to play so 'Sir, yes, the United States the Constitution doesn't allow me to send them back to the States.' [Ah...he seems to be referring to his Vice President and what Pence told him.] Well, I say yes, it does, because the Constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our Constitution and you can't vote on fraud. [Whether there was election fraud or not is NOT his call. It is a Judicial decision. He may hold an opinion, but it is an opinion he cannot act upon without a court decision to support him. But, in the next sentence, he denies this.] And fraud breaks everything up, doesn't it? [It's a rhetorical question, because he answers his own question in the next sentence.] When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules. [There it is...he's telling the crowd that because he has decided the election was based on fraud, Pence is allowed to change the rules...the law...which he confirms in the next sentence.] So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn't listen to the rhinos and the stupid people that he's listening to. [Here he indicates that he's talked to Pence, because he's referenced Pence listening to rhinos and stupid people, presumably those who have advised Pence that as the presiding officer of the joint session regarding the electoral count, he CANNOT on his own return the certified ballots and he's telling Pence, as his Vice President, to break the law. But, Pence is not acting as "Trump's VP." He's acting in his role as President of the Senate, who has been counseled by constitutional scholars and experts.]" And, he goes on to call for the march on the Capitol, which he promises he will lead. He didn't. He returned to the WH and watched the march play-out on tv.

    The speech ended at 1:10 PM, about 5 minutes after the joint session, in the Capitol, began. The speech was ending at approximately the same time Pence was releasing a letter explaining the position he would follow...according to the Constitution and according to U.S. law. The riot continued building. The Capitol would not be breached until over an hour later, but the tearing down of barricades and fighting with Capitol police had already begun. The Capitol police and Congressional representatives inside the Capitol were attempting to bring in additional law enforcement people, as well as the D.C. National Guard. At 1:50 PM, the D.C. police commander on the scene declares that the situation has degenerated into a riot. At 2:12 PM, the first rioter enters the Capitol. One minute later, Pence is evacuated and the Senate called into recess and evacuated as well. At roughly the same time, the President calls Senator Tommy Tuberville (R-Al) who is in the Senate chamber. Tuberville explains the situation to Trump, then tells him: "Mr. President, they've taken the Vice President out, They want me to get off the phone. I gotta go." Shortly thereafter, the House evacuates, at 2:20 PM. House Minority Leader calls Trump to tell him to get his people under control. Trump initially tells him that they aren't his people, but the left wing. McCarthy rejects that and then Trump tells him: "Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are." And, at 2:24 PM, with the riot under full way in the Capitol, Trump tweets the crowd: Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done [i.e. break the law] to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving the States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth." [Well, at least less than half of the voters who voted for Trump.] And, Trump, he threw is own VP under the bus and will now throw those arrested at the Capitol riot under the bus as well.

    I suggest that when Trump made that initial tweet AFTER the Capitol had been invaded and crimes of the rioters were being televised to millions (including Trump), his Tweet was consistent with what he'd told the crowd in his speech and despite the crimes that were being televised to all, he encouraged them further by telling them, not to stop the violence, not to leave the building, not to call for the National Guard, but to tell them "Mike didn't have the courage to do what should have been done" i.e. to break the law. And, in doing so, his Tweet made him "a principal" of the crimes themselves...via aiding and abetting sedition.
     
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  14. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member

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    I think Mitch simply wants the DoJ to do the dirty work so he doesn't have to fear his constituency, or fear Trump's rumblings about a third party.
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    stone6 wrote "I suggest that when Trump made that initial tweet AFTER the Capitol had been invaded and crimes of the rioters were being televised to millions (including Trump), his Tweet was consistent with what he'd told the crowd in his speech and despite the crimes that were being televised to all, he encouraged them further by telling them, not to stop the violence, not to leave the building, not to call for the National Guard, but to tell them "Mike didn't have the courage to do what should have been done" i.e. to break the law. And, in doing so, his Tweet made him "a principal" of the crimes themselves...via aiding and abetting sedition."

    Oh, yes, the case against Trump could not be clearer.
     
  16. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another HUGE Trump Victory!!!
     
  17. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former President Donald Trump’s long-time lawyer and confidant Rudy Giuliani is not representing Trump in legal matters at this time, Trump spokesman Jason Miller said on Tuesday.

    “Mayor Giuliani is not currently representing President Trump in any legal matters,” Miller said.

    Miller said in a tweet that Giuliani remained an "ally and a friend" and is not representing Trump only because there are no pending cases in which he's involved!

    I gotta admit, Miller is a barrel of laughs. His statements concerning Trump are comical, and that's being gentle.
     
  18. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why did over 240 congressmen and 57 US Senators vote to impeach and Convict. Sounds more like a hung jury than an acquittal. Your boy is skating on some thin ice. I predict that the more this insurrection is investigated the worse Trump, Guiliani and the rest of the nut job “stop the steal” imbeciles will look. All of those who voted not to impeach or to acquit this crook will be forever equated with that future Pulitzer Prize photo taken by the Atlantic photographer which depicts the gallows built by Trump’s mob with a noose hanging down framed nicely in the background with a huge Trump flag held by these nuts and the US Capitol building with Trumpers crawling up the walls like cockroaches. That is the face of the GOP circa 2021...
     
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  19. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    For various reasons I have always thought that Trump set out to destroy the Republican Party. Trump is vindictive and afflicted with extreme narcissism. Some one attacks him, he must strike back -- hard! -- never mind the circumstances.

    This may go back to 2016 primaries where his Republican rivals were not kind to Trump.

    Throughout his Presidency he attacked Republican lawmakers and the Republican Party as a whole.

    Now he attacks the single most powerful Republican in the country, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. Not without cause from his point of view, I admit that

    Politico reports, "Former President Donald Trump issued a caustic and highly personal statement against Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday, effectively declaring war on the Kentucky Republican for failing to back his attempts to undermine the 2020 election."

    “Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again,” Trump said in the statement released by his PAC.

    Politico added, "Trump’s statement will almost certainly aggravate the fight among Republicans over the party’s future after Trump’s presidency."

    Trump threatened to back primary challengers to lawmakers who aren’t aligned with Trump.

    “Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership,” Trump warned.

    Trump's intentions could not be clearer. If he can't run successfully for office again because he is disgraced, then no Republican can.

    So his thinking goes.

    Additionally, Trump knows his endorsement causes Republican candidates to lose. In the last election Trump stomped for the two Republican Senate candidates in Arizona.

    Arizona Has Two Democratic Senators For the First Time Since 1952
     
  20. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    He was acquittal try looking up what it means since you do not like the sound.

    The whole thing was political and nothing more. Your predicgtions are worthless and you have no evidence.
     
  21. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    So it is your congtenntion that unless a president concedes he is inciting violence. Hate gto step on your ego but that is not how incitment works.

    You have no evidence he incited anything.
     
  22. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    WSithout your comments in brackets which amounbt to some ficgtional mind reading ability on your part you have nothing.

    Your claims are flat ougt lies and you failed to show a quote or evidence.

    Those are facts and your effort is a massive failure at spin.
     
  23. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    It is in fact a prerequisite for conviction for incitement.
     
  24. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL. It went so far beyond not conceding that it's not even worth engaging any longer. Pro tip - Fantasy Land is a nice section of Disney to visit, but one shouldn't live there.
     
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  25. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Yes and fantasy land is where you live since you have no evidence for your claims.
     

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