The Alternative Ukraine Thread

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Kris P. Bacon, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Sometimes we all need to take a step back and question our own beliefs. If they’re not based on reality then they’re someone else’s opinions and opinions are not facts. What we then end up with is a chorus noise of different beliefs that the earth is flat, or shape shifting reptiles roam the earth and Hillary Clinton conducted satanic rituals in the basement of the White House!

    I personally know about social and political science, education and travel. That’s because I’ve studied it at postgraduate level, or done it. Which doesn’t mean I’m not sometimes wrong, but it does mean I have an understanding of what’s going on in the world and could write a political science essay off the top of my head based on knowledge, without having to go near google. Conversely, I don’t know anything about engineering and so if I was debating that (which I wouldn’t) I’d have to rely on google and that would very soon become obvious to someone who is a real engineer.

    ‘The googler’s’ as I call them, are often easily spotted. They’re the ones who present third party opinions as facts without explanations. Soundbites such as ‘Yes we can’ or ‘Feel the Bern’ spring to mind; nonsense that doesn’t say anything. It doesn’t matter even if the googlers are proved wrong, they just carry on repeating their opinions or ignore facts and move on to the next belief. Plus the often foot stamping and poster attacks of course. :wink: You could spend the rest of your life debating with them and get nowhere and so it’s better not to.

    The problem then is that previously the premise came first ending in a conclusion. In a belief based society, the conclusion comes first and beliefs are presented based on opinions support the conclusion. A back to front way of thinking and why political extremes sound so odd, except to those who believe.
     
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  2. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Pixie, go away! I’ve just given you the link to the Geneva Convention itself and the quote from it. Mercenaries are not regarded as POW’s. You have been proved wrong, now just accept it and stop trying to argue the point.
     
  3. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    The article discusses whether they are mercenaires. It looks at their personal involvement, international law, and the legal status of the area they are being tried in.
    I now doubt you have even read it. You certainly havent addressed it.
    Which supports my contention that the shills, either voluntary or sponsored, are pretty useless.
    And it isn't good enough to post empty discours to prove your credentials.
    Clearly textual analysis ans debate are not among them.
    I have decided to pay you some attention. I was looking for an easy mark.
    After all no one else seems interested.
    As Moonglow said yesterday, "redundant thread. Topics suck."
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  4. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Having been unable to keep her word and continue to bait and talk nonsense, Pixie is now on my ignore list. :)
     
  5. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    I was talking to an écho chamber anyway.
     
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  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested in the topic, but as far as I know, the men captured were not active duty military in any army and are not covered by the Geneva Conventions. If you are going to post an article, at least summarize it's importance. That was simply someone's hopeful opinion, not an actual legal one.
     
  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    It is wise for a man to know when to "stay in his own lane"

    If you wish to know about welding or building bicycles then I'm your Man!

    Sometimes there is wisdom in this.. . To know enough to know that you do not know what it is and to leave it alone!

    Or go find yourself an old man that has lived life and has the experience and consult with him.
     
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  8. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    There’s nothing more amusing than to see someone with low information trying to argue the beliefs and opinions they got from the mass media. The crucial aspect missing is reality.

    British Aslin (a former care worker) previously fought as a mercenary for the Kurdish militias in Northern Syria (YPG) and was arrested by the police on his return to the UK under the Terrorism Act. Released, he then returns for a second tour. He then disappears and finally turns up at the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol which by coincidence is also where units of Azov were located and now claims he’s a member of the Ukraine army.

    He does have a point though as the Neo-Nazi militia Azov was incorporated into the Ukraine National Guard in 2014 and fought in the Donbass for years and also alongside the 36th Marine division in Mariupol. An elite regiment, where did Aslin do his training? What was his rank? Where is his dog tag?

    Given his past record of turning up in the most likely places that attract mercenaries, it’s probably not beyond the bounds of reason that Aslin was fighting alongside the Marine regiment with the Azov Battalion and not in it. The court in Donetsk agreed and even had to provide interpreters for the two dual-nationality ‘Ukrainians.’

    As for Pinner, the other Briton captured with him and who also claims to have been a member of the elite marine regiment, at 48 years old and a former waste disposal worker with no military experience stretches the imagination a bit too far.

    All pretty basic information and easily accessible. Of course, the opposing view is that the two Britons were Ukrainians serving in the legitimate armed forces, but surely there’s a moral to all this? Every guilty verdict attracts criticism, but if you choose to get involved with Middle East militias or Ukrainian Nazis, your lifespan carries a very probable risk of being considerably shortened.

    Russia is now considering a Nuremberg 2 trial when this is over to find out what was going on when the media weren’t looking. There’s no proof that Aslin or Pinner were involved with atrocities, but they were certainly rubbing shoulders with the worst characters since WW2.
     
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  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I once considered running away from home to join the French foreign legion.... Or perhaps to become a highwayman..... But alas...

    Life had different plans for me. now I sell boiled peanuts and gasoline at 3:00 a.m.

    It's a rather mundane existence but someone has to do it! There's not even any restaurants around here open at 3:00 a.m. so somebody's got to sell something!

    But if I was to become a paid mercenary at least I would have good stories to tell the grandkids!

    I have never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane... Perhaps I should do that? I'm going to look into that and see what that cost.
     
  10. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Five years ago Mr. Pinner got fed up of being a waste disposal worker and now faces a firing squad. Mr. Aslin gets to die aged 28. If you’re going to fight, it’s best to choose the winning side as you live longer and in this instance that’s not Ukraine.

    The lives we lead now would turn Marx green with envy, but in trying to create a social liberal utopia, there’s something the politicians forgot about and that’s our natural instincts.

    The problem I think is we now lead such boring and mundane lives that we simply weren’t designed for. From signs that warn us a floor is slippery when wet to a near war breaking out if anyone is offended, I can understand why thousands ran off to join the Ukraine International Legion with promises of adventure, no more political correctness, all welcome and guaranteed action. Netflix and video games are not a substitute.

    Yet the stories I hear from those lucky enough to get out when they saw the reality don’t echo the romanticized media version of fighting in a professional army. Ukraine is not a modern first-world democratic country, it’s a poverty stricken backwater that has yet to discover human rights and why despite the initial propaganda of the people fighting in the streets, the reality is that millions are running to get away from the place, both to the west and Russia. It’s not just the consequence of war, it’s something that happened in all the former Eastern Blok countries.

    https://freewestmedia.com/2022/05/08/canadian-sniper-the-war-is-a-terrible-disappointment/

    "Wali himself and several other Canadians joined the Normandy Brigade, a private mercenary force commanded by a retired Canadian soldier from Quebec with the call sign “Hrulf” … Many expected everything to be easy and simple, but in war it’s the other way around. It was a terrible disappointment, Wali concluded."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/ru...-on-training-base/QVQOMEWFUBQZPBL6YYCJXQ3RYE/

    "Some were professional soldiers and are still competent," Hieu said. "Others are drunks, people with the most marginal military experience, and people who really should not have come at all."

    The same happened with the hundreds of young British Muslims who recently ran off to join ISIS in Syria. Those left alive are now rotting and forgotten in Syrian prisons, which probably aren’t the best prisons in the world to be spending time in.

    We only get one life and it’s too short to go fighting for liberal socialism or Nazi militias, depending on your point of view.
     
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  11. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Update

    As Eastern Ukraine now becomes the buffer zone against NATO forces that Russia has been asking for and been ignored, another provocation appears. Sanctions are internationally legal, but a blockade of Kaliningrad by Lithuania and Poland would force Russia to force a corridor through one or both of these NATO countries. That’s when a real war would break out and even without nuclear weapons, it would destroy Europe.

    Modern wars are no longer fought by huge armies facing each other. They’re fought by missiles often fired from long distances in which the amount of troops is largely irrelevant. Russia didn’t even need to mobilize conscription to defeat Ukraine, but expended a huge amount of missiles. Using an opinion resembling a conspiracy theory, is that what NATO has been hoping for?

    Anyone remember Hurricane Katrina in 2005? Not only was it devastating, but after it was over it became the study of societal collapse. The findings were that when the lights go out and the supply chain fails, it takes three days for society to collapse into complete anarchy, as New Orleans did. Russia would suffer heavy damage, but the reality is that the west is so technologically advanced and many countries so small, it would only takes a few missiles to destroy their infrastructure. The UK for instance is the size of Oregon.

    Added to that, is that after a quarter century of Wokism and Cultural Marxism from the European Union, European societies are already divided and socially weak. No more Dunkirk spirit here and as Zelensky recently discovered, not many want to fight for social liberalism or the politically elite running them.
     
  12. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone know that Ukraine is not a sovereign country? That the majority of the 2/3 of the country from the east still speak Russian and their culture still has many Russian elements to it. Also, my understanding is that Putin made his move to stop the incursion of NATO surrounding Russia and use Ukraine as a 'ground' access point. Why is Russia so hated by the West? Because Russia is one of the few countries left that don't have a Rothschilds Central Bank. With the elite owning MSM they propagandise the narrative to make Putin and Russia look evil.
    When you also understand the history of the region, it is where the Khazarian Mafia are/is. They are the ones who pull the strings on the 13 ruling Illuminati Bloodline Families. Who is the Khazarian Mafia?

    "The present-day KM knows that it cannot operate or exist without abject secrecy, and therefore has spent a lot of money having its history excised from the history books in order to prevent citizens of the World from learning about its “Evil beyond imagination”, that empowers this World’s largest Organized Crime Cabal.

    The authors of this article have done their best to resurrect this lost, secret history of the Khazarians and their large International Organized Crime Syndicate, best referred to as the Khazarian Mafia (KM), and make this history available to the World via the Internet, which is the new Gutenberg Press.

    It has been exceedingly difficult to reconstruct this hidden secret history of the KM, so please excuse any minor inaccuracies or errors which are unintentional and are due to the difficulty in digging out the true history of Khazaria and its mafia. We have done the best we can to reconstruct it.

    It was Mike Harris that connected the dots and made the actual discovery of the presence of the Khazarian Mafia’s secret history and blood oath to take revenge on Russia for helping Americans win the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, and their blood oath of revenge against America and Americans for winning these wars and sustaining the Union."

    Source & more...
     
  13. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    I always liked Putin, even in the early days. He takes no :icon_shithappens: & has huge balls. He knows how to say no and also F' off.
     
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  14. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Putin isn’t perfect, he’s a politician. But the difference is he brought back a semblance of democracy after the USSR. He stopped the western capitalists and oligarchs plundering Russia in the 90’s. Re-opened the Churches and put a stop to the cultural- revolution the west is now engaged in. He’s hated in the west, but very popular in Russia and many countries outside the west.
     
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  15. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    He isn't perfect and is hated in the west because he didn't and doesn't play their games.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!!!!!!!

    I have got to read all of this again soon but for the moment I would love it you told me what I got wrong in this related discussion?

    Wow!!!!!

    Will the war in the Ukraine lead to the exposure of Hunter Biden and then....

    ?
    Will the war in the Ukraine lead to the fall of Hunter and then Joe Biden????

    1. No
      1 vote(s)
      25.0%

    2. Yes
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    3. *
      I do hope so....
      3 vote(s)
      75.0%

    4. I HOPE NOT!!!!!!
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    Change Your Vote









     
  17. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    Putin apologists, an actual thing, go figure. Poor Russia, why did Ukraine invade them!
     
  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Justice is coming.

    upload_2022-7-13_9-29-4.jpeg
    upload_2022-7-13_9-29-4.png Daily Kos
    Ukraine update: The counteroffensive at Kherson is very, very real

    Yesterday’s update included a map of the Kherson area, so it may seem too early to be hitting it again. We’re hitting it again. That’s because on Monday, Ukrainian forces reportedly liberated the town of Kyselivka.

    In the last census, Kyselivka had a population of just over 2,500. Compared to the Russian capture of a town like Severodonetsk (pop. 101,000 before the invasion), this may not seem like that big a deal. And it’s not—this isn’t the capture of a major city. However, Kyselivka is important because it was one of the points where Russian forces had dug in, fortified the area, and established a line that Ukrainian forces had been unable to budge in weeks of fighting. Now that line is broken. . . .
     
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    What if Russia's Army Fails in Ukraine? - RAND Corporation
    https://www.rand.org › blog › 2022/06 › what-if-russia...


    Jun 20, 2022 — Despite incremental gains in eastern Ukraine, a Russian military collapse is possible. Russian forces could suffer catastrophic defeat akin to that of Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser's army in the 1967 Six-Day War, when more than 80 percent of its military materiel was lost.
     
  20. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    No Jack, it's not going to happen. Russia isn't a third world military power such as Egypt half a century ago.
     
  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We shall see. You are right that Russia is not Egypt; it's more like a large, cold India, but with a much smaller population.
    Anecdote: In 1980 we were preparing to depart from my first overseas assignment (in an African country). We were conducting the usual end-of-tour sale of household items when the wife of a Red Army Lt.Col. from the Soviet Military Mission slipped into our house. Taking out a hidden roll of US$100 bills, she bought just about all my wife's old clothes for herself. I knew then that the USSR was finished.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  22. Richard Franks

    Richard Franks Well-Known Member

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    Russia-Ukraine war update: what we know on day 140 of the invasion (msn.com)
    Ukraine looks like they will get an upper hand depending on what Russia will do.
     
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  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    A key difference is that the Ukrainians know what they're fighting for, and want to fight. The Russian forces don't and don't.

    Russian Offensive Campaign ...
    Russian forces remain in a theater-wide operational pause in ...

    ". . . Russian forces are reportedly forming a new brigade-level combat unit in Kherson Oblast and are continuing to face personnel shortages. The GUR reported that Russian forces are recruiting Russian officers to staff a new brigade-level unit in Kherson Oblast, but officers are refusing to participate in the deployment.[37] The GUR also reported that Russian military command dismissed over 26 servicemen of the 38th Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade who refused to participate in the war.[38] The Russia-based “Free Buryatia Foundation” (a small ethnic minorities’ rights organization established after the Russian invasion of Ukraine) reported that 150 Buryat servicemen refused to fight and returned home on July 7.[39] The BBC had previously confirmed that the Republic of Buryatia has lost 207 servicemen of the 4,515 servicemen killed in action whom the BBC was able to verify. The Buryatia region losses were the second-highest of any region in the partial data presented by the investigation.[40] . . . "
     
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    No retreat, no surrender.
    Ukraine Foreign Minister Rejects Ceding Territory. Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Wednesday that Kyiv will not cede territory as part of a peace deal with Russia and says that no peace talks are currently underway with Moscow. He added that Ukraine’s objective in the war is to “liberate our territories, restore our territorial integrity, and full sovereignty” in occupied areas. Reuters
     
  25. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    The Soviet Union fell over 30 years ago, the days of having money and nothing to buy are long gone. I too was aked many times to bring over western jeans (Levis, Wrangler) and told I'd get three times what I paid for them in the west. I think you'll now find that Russia has missile systems and radar comparable to the west. If Russia could be easily defeated, NATO would have tried it years ago.
     

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