The Beer Thread

Discussion in 'Food and Wine' started by SpaceCricket79, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Stella has been brewing beer since the 14th century so I think they have it nailed down now. Bass is an American ale based on a British recipe. It is brewed in New Hampshire. It is my favorite American beer hands down. The Czech Republic has the most beer consumption per person in the world. I'm not familiar with their products but I would imagine a beer crazy country like that would know how to brew. Belgium, where Stella is brewed, has the most breweries per capita in the world.
     
  2. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Belgium is also the home of the world's largest brewer, AB InBev, which is based in the same city that Stella Artois is brewed in.

    It's bizarre to think Budweiser could be called a Belgian beer, but it's testimony to the globalization and consolidation of the beer industry. According to its website AB InBev owns 500 different brands of beer. :eek:
     
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  3. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This one is very good. It has about 9% alcohol, so be careful.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
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  4. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow - 8 hops.

    The only brew I've seen that is comparable to that is Lagunitas' Little Sumpin' Sumpin' Ale, which uses 7 different hops:

    LSSA.jpg
    Great brew. One of my personal favorites...
     
  5. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I like simple.

    [​IMG]

    But when I want fancy...

    [​IMG]

    And when I want something really special.....

    [​IMG]

    But only from the state of CO, and not that stuff they ship or produce outside of CO....
     
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  6. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    What I like:
    Not so much the big names that are known internationally.
    More the many regional breweries here.
    For instance the "Badische Staats-Brauerei Rot-Haus" here in the Black Forest.
     
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  7. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen Coors banquet here in Florida and so long I can't remember.... And maybe all I've ever seen is Coors light.

    Michelob Gold label was good but it seems that it too has gone the way of the dinosaur here
     
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  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    When I was stationed in Germany (before the end of the cold war) they would sell a Czech beer called Budvar, which was probably one of the best beers I've ever had. I think because of name rights it's now sold as Czechvar but allegedly the same think.
     
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  10. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's the same way here in Virginia. The best breweries are the small local breweries, like Starr Hill and Hardywood, and Port City makes a Märzenbier that can't be beat. Unfortunately, they're a little expensive (the price of hops is astronomical these days) but they're worth the price.
     
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  11. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Brandon says... "I did that"... I suppose he would tell you it doesn't effect him, so who cares...
     
  12. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    So you also use the German word "Märzen" - from "März" = month of March - for this type of beer? :)
     
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  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I have 8 acres I could dedicate to growing hops. I wonder how much it would cost to plant 8 acres of hops and put up the supports for the vines. Nothing like an astronomically expensive crop.
     
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  14. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do and some American breweries do as well, but most American breweries call their Märzenbiers "Octoberfest" beer because they're seasonal beers that are sold in late Summer and early Fall around the time of the German festival in Munich. They don't name the beer like Germans do - after the time of year when the beers were/are traditionally brewed (in March).

    And then we have our Maibocks (or Helles Bocks) that are traditionally brewed to be consumed in May. You don't see many Maibocks here in America but I brew at least one batch every year (see Post #533 above). In fact, the first all-grain beer I home-brewed was a Spring Maibock. I like them because they have more flavor than your typical light lagers and golden ales, and they do tend to be considerably stronger (between 6.5% to 8.5% ABV).
     
  15. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've seen estimates as high as $12-15,000 per acre, but it all depends on the materials you use. Obviously, if you live in the country and can cut down trees to make your poles it's a lot cheaper than having to buy them, and again the cost of the lines depends on the materials and set-up. What's kept me from growing a large crop is access to water - we don't have a stream or lake on our property and we get our drinking water from a well, so I don't have the means to provide them with the water a sizable crop would need. If you live up North and get a good amount of rainfall during the growing season you might be able to rely on Mother Nature, but I live in the South where it's hot, humid and often dry, and the only hop I can grow - Cascade - is not drought tolerant. Thus, all I can grow are a few plants for my own consumption/homebrewing, but the only expenses I have are for fertilizer - they're heavy nitrogen feeders early in the growing season - and occasionally fungicide. Cascades are susceptible to powdery mildew, but if you're growing a mildew-resistant variety you should be able to avoid that problem/expense. The only pest we have issues with are Japanese Beetles - they love hops - but since I don't like using pesticides and haven't been able to effectively control them with a spray I just pick them off. The only expense is time, but if I were a large grower I would have to figure out a way to contend with them.

    As far as the plants are concerned, I highly recommend this company because they sell actual plants, not just rhizomes:

    Great Lakes Hops
    https://www.greatlakeshops.com

    The plants have always arrived healthy and in good shape, and the price is right. However, if you're growing a crop it's much cheaper to start with rhizomes - they're half the price of plants.

    Because they're an invasive plant they are also easy to propagate, so you can save money growing plants from your own cuttings. I started with two plants my wife bought me, and after I figured out their sexes I propagated the rest from the female's rhizomes. Now, some of them have filled their containers so I'm going to divide them and I'll have more free plants this year.
     
  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. What is the going price for fresh hops?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
  17. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are difficult to grow in the South, but if you live in 4 seasons territory, then its an option.
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I'
    I'm in 4 seasons territory. I'll have to learn more about the market. Also, I don't really relish the work. Corn and hay are handled by machinery. I suspect there is a lot of human interface with a hops field.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It appears that good agriculture should produce 1500 to 2000 lbs of hop flowers per acre. They appear to sell for about $20 per pound so there is no doubt that it can be a money maker. I may take a corner 1/2 acre from the field and plant it as an experiment. It isn't hard to find cultivars. Now to get a feel for how and where to sell the stuff. I imagine craft brewers would be the main customer for small production operations. Since I make my living in e-commerce, the internet is probably the way to go for me. I see a lot of hops are sold as dried pellets. That is another whole issue. I imagine fresh flowers have a short shelf life. It is definitely more complicated than corn and hay. Corn and hay don't have to be trellised, watered and tended. I think I'll closed the computer now and go have a beer.
     
  20. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry I didn't catch your posts earlier, fmw.

    What part of the country do you live in? Most hops are cool weather plants - where I live (Virginia) Cascade hops are the only hop you can consistently grow. As you'll see at Great Lakes Hops, there are a lot of other varieties that are basically knock-offs of European hops that were developed to be grown here in the United States. For example, Mount Hood, which was bred as a substitute for the German Noble hop Hallertauer Mittelfrüh, which if you've ever drank a Sam Adams Boston Lager you've tasted that hop (it's my favorite hop):

    Same thing with Liberty hops:

    https://doubleavineyards.com/liberty-hop

    Handy information there - note the yields/acre.

    This is also where Hop Conversion charts come in handy, and I always use more than one and then cross-reference:
    https://grainfather.com/hop-substitution-guide/
    https://www.brewps.com/hop-chart-hop-substitutes.html

    Obviously, if you want to sell to local brewers you'll need to find out what hops they need.

    As far as getting started goes, I would read everything you can (especially if you can get info from your local Extension Service) and consider attending hop oriented events where you can talk with people who have some experience. Another thing I would do, and you have probably thought of this already, is to plant various cultivars on your land and see what works best (be sure to get your soil tested first!). That's how I found out I could only grow Cascades in my area - I tried several other varieties that supposedly had a shot of growing here but they all failed. If you're serious about this get your test plot started this year - it will take several years for the hops to produce cones. You'll also want to deal with a seller that can guarantee that your plants are females because they are the only ones that will produce cones.

    As you suspected, storage is a major issue, so you'll have to look into that, as well. The hops I grow go straight from the vine and into the brew kettle and the ones I can't use within a couple days of picking immediately go into the freezer.

    Arkansas Grown Hops: Drying, Storage, and Quality
    https://www.uaex.uada.edu/farm-ranc...update-blog/posts/2019arkansashopsdrying.aspx

    If you go for it, good luck!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2023
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  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information. You convinced me that a test plot is a bad idea since I would have to wait years for the results of the test. I either do it or I don't. I'm in the great lakes area with soft sandy loam for topsoil. Corn and soy beans are the predominant crops around here. We grow mostly horse hay. Horse owners have a time finding mild hay. Hay with too much alfalfa can cause a horse to founder. So I have a steady source of customers who need what I have. I don't even have to go to auction any more.
     
  22. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sounds like you're all set.

    As far as growing hops is concerned, your area and soil sound good to me, and I know the extension services at Michigan State and OSU have info online for folks looking into growing hops. They're the first people I turn to for information, then hop growers themselves.

    I think it took me three years to get my first decent harvest out of my Cascade hops, and if I could I would grow Noble hops, particularly something along the lines of a Hallertau Mittelfrüh (ex., Mount Hood). However, from a purely profitable standpoint you might be better off growing the hops that are big with the brewers making IPAs, since they use a lot of product:

    https://beermaverick.com/the-most-popular-hops-in-use-today/
    https://beermaverick.com/the-most-common-hops-used-in-ipas/

    But! some of those hops are proprietary, so:

    The Best Hop Varieties To Grow Yourself
    https://beermaverick.com/the-best-hop-varieties-to-grow-yourself/

    It's not my favorite hop, but the Cascades I grow are extremely popular and perhaps the easiest to grow. On top of that they have the advantage of being a multipurpose hop that can be used for bittering and aroma. They've got pretty good mildew resistance, too - I've only had problems during exceptionally wet and humid summers. Otherwise, they're pretty low maintenance.
     
  23. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I brewed another Paulaner Clone (Bavarian Hefeweizen) last weekend similar to the one I brewed late last year (Post #545), but made a few adjustments to AIH's recipe. It tasted like it needed another pound of Munich Malt and the color wasn't as dark as it should have been so I added a half pound of Dingeman's 20L Caravienne malt. This brought my grain bill up to 11.25 pounds which is closer to the 12 pound threshold I usually shoot for.

    I also used the liquid yeast I would have liked to use the first time around, which is Wyeast's 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen (now that it's cold out it's safe to ship liquid yeasts).

    Since I last brewed this Hefe I learned that keeping the wheat below 50% of the grain bill helps produce this style's distinctive clove flavor. Evidently, pitching extra yeast does the same thing, too.

    Hopefully, this will come out even better than my last batch - I'll find out sometime between late March and mid April.

    My next brew is going to be a hoppy ale recipe I've come up with on my own that uses three of the four German Noble hops. I'm going to start with 1 ounce of.Tettnang for bittering, 3 ounces of Hallertau Mittelfrüh for aroma/flavor and an ounce of Spalt at the end of the boil for more aroma/flavor (Saaz will be the only Noble not making its way into this ale). The grains will be predominantly 2-row malt with some 60L Crystal malt to balance all those hops and produce a dark amber color. I've never brewed this before so it should be interesting - with these ingredients I can't imagine how things could go wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
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  24. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    I didn't know this tread existed, thanks Talon!
    This is what I'm drinking now - sorry no photo...

    Red Right Hand
    OG: 1.055 IBUS: 35.8 SRM: 17 Est ABV: 5.3%

    9.5 lbs Marris Otter
    1.5 lbs Munich
    0.5 lb Crystal 80
    0.5 lb Crystal 40
    0.2 lb Chocolate Malt
    0.1 lb Roasted Barley

    0.5 oz - 60 min Warrior
    1 oz - 20 min EKG

    BRY-97 West coast ale yeast
     
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  25. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    This is what I have on deck (grain is crushed, gotta get my lazy ass in gear and brew it)

    My Bock
    OG: 1.058 IBUS: 33.6 SRM: 11.4 Est ABV: 6.3%

    10.25 lbs Pilsner
    2 lbs Vienna
    0.5 lb Carahell
    0.25 lb Chocolate Malt


    0.5 oz - 60 min Magnum
    0.75 oz - 15 min German Tradition
    0.5 oz - flameout German Tradition

    Saflager 34/70
     
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