The bible is written in such a way

Do you realize that you're in the religious section of a discussion forum?

If you want me to lay out my reasoning, I am more than willing to do so. We can start at, what is to me, the beginning. My belief in the supernatural extends from my observations of material contingency. The way I see it, material contingency is empirical evidence of necessary being.

 

This is ALSO the Philosophy forum in which reason and logic are discussed. Furthermore religion is not above criticism.

If you want to start "at the beginning" you need to establish that there was "a beginning". What is your reasoning for making that baseless assumption?

 

..looks like this thread is degenerating into shock jock, anti-christian bigotry..

What is it about the bible and Christianity that elicits such irrational hostility and venom?

 

If you're going to continue to pepper your posts with words like "baseless", why would anyone take your offer to debate seriously. Tone it down a bit and I'd be happy to lay out my thinking for you. Ok?

Space/time only actually exists relative to matter. If matter is contingent in its being, space/time is also contingent in its being.

No particle of matter can occupy the same position, relative to the balance of matter, in any two increments of time. Therefore, all matter is subject to constant change. Anything subject to change is contingent in its being.

If material being exists; by definition, necessary being must exist.
If that which is material, spatial and temporal is contingent in its being, necessary being must be metaphysical, meta-spatial and meta-temporal. In other words, necessary being must be immaterial, spiritual and eternal.

To date, I am currently left to believe that the God of the bible uniquely fulfills the implications of a necessary being.

 

if your god created everything in existence, and evil exists, your got created evil. There is no way to get around that, no matter how you try to rationalize it.

 

and this line of thinking has been shown to be incorrect. You assume, material contingency, then you assume a necessary being. both of those assumptions are flawed.

 

Your failure to address the illusion of a "beginning" is duly noted for the record.

Your alleged "contingencies" have no logical basis because they are circular.

The Space-time continuum exists per the Laws of Physics. One of those laws is that matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Ergo matter/energy have always existed and will always exist thereby negating your "contingency premise". Without that your "necessary being" is also negated.

 

and this is a baseless assertion.

also, a baseless assertion.

invalid logic. a necessary being need not exist.

baseless assertion

which is fine. you can believe anything you wish. the problem comes when you try to pass off your unfounded beliefs as fact.

 

Contingency implies a beginning.
I'm wondering now just how much remediation you're going to need as we go forward.
Time cannot be infinitely regressive. If time were infinitely regressive we could never arrive at this point because another moment could always be added to the regressive end. Time is the progressive sequential relative positions of matter. Space is position relative to matter. If all matter, even on a subatomic scale, would maintain its position relative to the balance of matter, time would stop. Space/time are simply expressions of matters constantly changing relative positions.

If matter is subject to change, it is contingent in its being. If matter is contingent in its being, space/time is contingent in its being.

Time is defined by change. There could be not time if not for change. time is most certainly contingent in its being, and therefore, most certainly has a beginning.

 

Really, it's not hard to understand the Bible if you stand back and look at it without preconceived ideas. You simply need to know the background on which it was written when you study it.
The scribes in Babylon simply wrote the Pentateuch taking ancient stories and adapted them. Virtually every rule given - family relations, food and health regulations - can be found in earlier civilisations. Many of their festivals were also in operation earlier. They simply adapted these and put them in the mouth.of a mythical Moses. The mistakes they made in their stories show they had little detailed historical knowledge when they wrote their 'history'. Some of their religious objects are almost copies from other religions. ://www.academia.edu/11944287/_The_Egyptian_Origin_of_the_Ark_of_the_Covenant_ That also include rituals.
From the time of the tribal king David - note Tribal king. The story of David is a greatly exaggerated story as anyone who has done a detailed study will know. Of course miracles occur even then. In one chapter David kills a King who the resurrects, only to be killed by David 2 chapters later. Oops. Facts and figures are distorted and wrong. Solomon kept 1400 chariots and 12000 horses in Jerusalem and the chariots cities? (1 Kings 10) We know of Megiddo but that is now dated 200 years later - in Ahab's time. That makes more sense. Solomon lived in Jerusalem - a long way from Megiddo. It would have taken much time to get to Megiddo and then get the Chariots back to Jerusalem, or where they were needed. Ahab, however, was King of Israel (northern kingdom), and lived closer to Megiddo.
There is a great deal of History in the OT. Some is borne out by archaeology, some denied by archaeology, and results of events disputed. Ie what destroyed Jericho.
Study Judaism and the OT and they stand complete in themselves. Prophecies are mainly written historically or the thoughts of astute watchers. The destruction of Israel and eventually the Babylonian captivity of Judah were simply the results of the actions of those nations, which were observed by whoever wrote the various parts of Isaiah. Ditto Jeremiah. There have been many such 'prophets' in the past. We (UK) had one in the 30's - Churchill - who could see what was happening, but was ignored. Thus out lack of preparation for WW2. 'Prophecies' in the OT are 'fulfilled' in Jewish thinking, events and history. Whatever way Christianity wants to interpret them is irrelevant - except to Christianity.
Jesus was Jew. Look at the things that make him divine in Christianty and they rely on the OT. None of the Nativity prophecies refer to Jesus - except in Christian thinking. In fact Paul was the first to make Jesus divine in Romans 1:3-5. That by his resurrection. This was written long before the Gospels were written. Paul was a friend of the disciples but they had never told him of the 'divine' birth of Jesus? Or did Paul, as a converted Pharisee, reject that?
The gospels are full of things Jesus, the Jew, would never have said in the sense Christianity has interpreted them. And certainly Jesus would never have drunk 'Blood' as the Catholics say.
I said at the beginning to look at things without preconceived ideas. By looking outside at the backgound etc we get an understanding of what was written. What was written in the OT was written on the background of ancient history and Jewish belief.
I'm agnostic. The Bible against the background of ancient history interests me..

 

That's why there are Churches all over the world with congregations? For personal interpretation?

 

If your religious book needs to be interpreted.

That's a pretty good indication it did not come from any God.

 

FYI - The god of the bible is the god of the torah(jews) and the god of the Koran(muslims)
Same deity.

 

Some of them promote personal interpretation and congregate for discussion, worship and comradery.

But most congragate to have it interpreted for them because they're lazy and consequently manipulated by the 'interpreters.'

FTR, Im no fan of the establishment of religion, in case that wasn't clear. Its most often used to twist spirituality for the purposes of social control.

 

The Jews invented the god, it is theirs, they have the patient on it.

The Christians stole the god from the Jews, added more Gods to it, changed the rules,
And turned on the Jews.

The Muslims stole the God from the Christians, eliminated the Christian Gods, instilled their prophet,
Changed the rules again, and turned on the Christians and the Jews.

Now God is either a wish/washy schizophrenic, who simply cannot make up his mind.

Or they are different Gods.

Now the God of the Jews, wants all the Jews dead.

 

Correct, most take another's, churches, interpretation.
That was my point. It's not personal, it's taught, but most will agree with what they've been taught. Or just accept it faithfully.

 

Not different gods, as all 3 of them refer to the god of abraham as the original.
And yes, wishy washy, but that is because man molds this god into their culture.
Because god, didn't write things down itself, in a manner that could be understood by the whole world.

 

What will send you to heaven in Islam, can send you to hell in Christianity.

The one who took the god from the other, claims it is the same God, he just changed his mind.
But the original does not agree, he still worships the same God he always has.

They are the same God in Name only, not in deeds.

 

Even most of those who believe in the God of the bible do not describe a God anything like the God I find in the bible.

 

I've taken the time, over the last forty years, to form my own opinions. A great deal of my research consisted of learning about other people's opinions. Now, I can't find a church that comes anywhere near what I am l left to believe.

 

The God of the Christian bible, doesn't want you to kill anyone.

The God of the Muslim religion wants you to kill everyone not in your group

 

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

 

The Jews did not invent god. They took their god from previous religions. El. Yahweh are all gods of earlier pantheons

 

You got it girl. That's all you. You are an archetypical troll.
I started a thread on trolling here in the philosophy section. Please, consider reading and responding to it.

 

I understand it came from others, however with that logic we can trace all religions back to a fictitious counterpart.

You and I could invent a religion right now, with no previous input, and somewhere, in history someone invented the basis for ours, that came out of our imagination.

The Jews refined the previous into what we have now.
But yes, we could go back another 10,000 years.