The Bible

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    This is a thread to examine the most controversial, polemical, translated, printed, sold, loved and hated book, in the history of mankind.

    We can examine its origins, content, influence, themes, and significance in the human condition.

    I'll present a few quotes to start:

    "For more than a thousand years the BIBLE, collectively taken, has gone hand in hand with civilization, science, law --in short, with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species, always supporting and often leading the way. ~Samuel Taylor Coleridge

    "The BIBLE has been the Magna Charta of the poor and oppressed. The human race is not in position to dispense with it" ~Thomas Huxley

    "It is impossible to mentally or socially enslave a BIBLE reading people. The principles of the BIBLE are the groundwork of human freedom" ~Horace Greeley

    "The existence of the BIBLE, as a book for the people, is the greatest benefit which the human race has ever experienced. Every attempt to belittle it is a crime against humanity" ~Immanuel Kant


    There is no doubt about the influence of the Bible in American history & culture. But it is also a major factor in the birth of the new nation. Themes of freedom, Law, morality, & interpersonal dealings fill the book, & were a significant influence on the founding of the nation.

    Without the influence of the reformation, & especially, the written word, the impact of the Bible might have remained in the grip of the religious professionals.. the church. But as literacy grew, so did awareness of the Bible, which was the central point of literacy for many in those times.

    I submit that the Bible was a major factor in the birth & development of the American experiment. No other book has had the impact for human freedom than these ancient texts.
     
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    The most influential writings in the history of mankind without a doubt.

    Also the best selling book in the world by far.
     
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  3. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    That's mostly romanticized nonsense. The ongoing reformation happened in spite of the Bible, not because of it. The reformation of Western culture was due to secular ideas, like classical liberalism, scientific enlightenment, and secular government.
    Our culture has improved hand in hand with the well being of individuals, as these ideas overtake the place of religious nonsense. What changed since the days of abject ignorance amd genocide in the name of the Bible? Not the Bible. To credit the Bible with the positive changes that arose precisely from abandonment of its immoral, magical nonsense is absurd. The word "apologist" doesn't begin to delineate this desperate propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Post #1 here contains a message..... from the Apostle Paul to a man who had a visionary dream of heaven back in 1995..... This is brilliantly written and goes into the idea that Paul had no idea that his writings would eventually become so important to so many people.


    Pastor Rick Joyner meets Apostle Paul in visionary dream of heaven....
     
  5. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    I prefer non-fiction...
     
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  6. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education. ~Theodore Roosevelt

    I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from The Savior of the world is communicated to us through this Book. ~Abraham Lincoln

    As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see. ~Benjamin Franklin

    The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses. ~Thomas Jefferson


    I picked thes quotes for a reason.. none of these famous, influential Americans were Christians. They saw the wisdom and virtue of biblical precepts as positives for a society, and were admirers of the bible and Christianity, as a beacon of Truth, Freedom, and Civilization.

    Contrast that now, to the anti-christian sentiment that pervades the culture. Instead of esteeming the bible, Jesus, and Christian principles, they are mocked, distorted, caricatured, and despised.

    America is in the grip of post Christian decline, and the departure from the principles upon which She was founded has not been a positive for society.

    It is why you almost always see anti Christian and anti American venom from the same source. The Indoctrination of revisionist history, mandated science, and false narratives, promote the anti Christian, anti American ideology that pervades the culture.

    Welcome to Progresso World. Read the bible before it is banned..
     
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  7. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    A few more quotes...
    "The BIBLE holds up before us ideals that are within sight of the weakest and the lowliest, and yet so high that the best and the noblest are kept with their faces turned ever upward. It carries the call of the Saviour to the remotest corners of the earth; on its pages are written the assurances of the present and our hopes for the future" ~William Jennings Bryan

    "The BIBLE is one of the greatest blessings bestowed by God on the children of men -- It has God for its Author, Salvation for its end, and Truth without any mixture for its matter. -- It is all pure, all sincere; nothing too much; nothing wanting" ~John Locke

    "I consider an intimate knowledge of the BIBLE an indispensable quality of a well educated man" ~Dr. Robert Milikan

    "Of the many influences that have shaped the United States into a distinctive nation and people, none
    may be said to be more fundamental and enduring than the BIBLE" ~Ronald Reagan

    All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the BIBLE" ~Noah Webster

    America has more towns named after Bible towns than anywhere in the world.
    The Bible has often significantly impacted the names Americans have given their children.
    In the early years of America, most children were named Jeremiah, Abigail, John, Josiah, Peter, Sarah, Paul, or Elizabeth.Today, many of these Bible names are making a comeback. In fact, of the top 50 names given to girls in America in 2005, 14 are Bible names. Of the top 50 names given to boys, 25 are Bible names. ~Dr. Woodrow Kroll

    The influence of the Bible is worldwide. Its mighty power has affected every department of human activity. The contents of the Scriptures have supplied themes for the greatest poets, artists and musicians which the world has yet produced, and have been the mightiest factor of all in shaping the moral progress of the race. ~Arthur Pink

    I will confess that the majesty of the Scriptures strikes me with admiration, as the purity of the gospel has its influence on my heart. Peruse the works of our philosophers, with all their pomp of diction: how contemptible are they, compared with the Scriptures! Is it possible that a book at once so simple and so sublime should be merely the work of man? Is it possible that the sacred personage whose name it records should be himself a mere man? What sweetness, what purity, in his manner! What sublimity in his maxims! What profound wisdom in his discourses! Where is the man, where the philosopher, who could so live and so die without weakness and without ostentation? If the life and death of Socrates were those of a sage, the life and death of Jesus were those of a God. ~Jean Jacques Rousseau
     
  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I'm a bit confused as to the purpose of this thread. Are you arguing primarily against those people who think the Bible hasn't had an impact on history? I feel like even those who oppose the Bible will very rarely claim that it has had no impact.
     
  9. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    ..just defending the significance and positive influence the bible has had, especially on western civilization. Also, i will be addressing the canonization, the historical and scholarly work surrounding the ancient texts, and the validity it still has today. Is that is a bit more controversial for you? ;)
     
  10. Market Junkie

    Market Junkie Well-Known Member

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    Well, as long as we're posting bible opinions, let's hear from Big Al...

    ... the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish …

    Albert Einstein
     
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  11. Greenleft

    Greenleft Active Member

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    There is much I have already said about my personal opinion on the Bible. So instead of this being a rant against the book, I'll attempt to make a truthful and balanced summary.

    I don't think anyone will deny that the Bible is the most read and most influential book in history. For better and for worse it has shaped history. While there are certainly timeless gems of wisdom in the four Gospels, people tend to ignore all the immoral, absurd and dated truths in the rest of the Bible.

    I'll name just one example (anyone else can contribute their own absurd part of the Bible): When the author/authors of Genesis inserted the Noah's Ark narrative, we are denied the answer weather to take it literally or not. Many Christians tell me it's irrelevant weather it is true or not, and have a non-committal stance on Noah's Ark. But I tell you right now the Noah's Ark narrative diminishes the assertion that the Bible is timeless wisdom.

    While being a cultural Christian (the same way somebody is ethnically Jewish as opposed to practicing Jew) is something that brings me closer to my community (I feel personally hurt and attacked when churches are destroyed and Christians persecuted), I feel the Bible is over hyped in how much life guidance it has or will contribute to my life. And it certainly is not the most well written book in history so I fail to understand why people think an all powerful supernatural force dictated such a flawed document.

    I submit to you the following video:



    On top of everything else, all four major Christian denominations: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Protestant are in disagreement over what should and should not be included in the Bible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  12. delade

    delade Banned

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    The Holy Bible has gone hand in hand with civilization, science, law -- in short, with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species, always supporting and often leading the way.... !!! Hooray!!!

    The Holy Bible has been the Magna Charta of the poor and oppressed and their way(s) of coming out of poverty into the riches of God, even with civilization, science, law -- in short, with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species, always supporting and often leading the way... !!!! Hooray!!!

    The existence of The Holy Bible, as a book for the people, is the 'greatest' benefit which the human race has ever received as far as civilization, science, law-- in short, with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species, always supporting and often leading the way... !!! Hooray!!!

    There is no doubt about the influence of The Holy Bible in American history and culture. But it is also a major factor in the birth of a new nation. Themes of freedom, Law, morality and interpersonal dealings fill the book and were a significant influence of the founding of the nation. As far as civilization, science, law-- in short with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species, always supporting and often leading the way.....

    And from these civilizations, sciences, laws -- in short, with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species, always supporting and often leading the way, the 'greed' of individuals and the 'economic discriminations' arose. Along with every other form of prejudice and biasness which were and are of civilization, science, law-- in short with the moral and intellectual cultivation of the species.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  13. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    You might want to see what else Thomas Jefferson had to say about the Bible, or reflect on the fact that he took a knife to it, or read all of the negative things Thomas Paine had to say about it, before pretending this is new.
     
  14. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Because...?
     
  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Diversity of thought is positive. Without it there is no progress. There is no point in hating the bible. I provides something useful for a lot of people. Nobody is forced to read it or accept what it says as fact.
     
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  16. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    You might try something else than ad hom and snark, or post something relevant.. :roll:
     
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  17. Greenleft

    Greenleft Active Member

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    1. Except when street preachers and door to door types push it in your face and threaten you with hellfire

    2. Except children with indoctrination. There is a video for that too:

     
  18. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for a reasoned opinion. Criticisms or negatives from the bible can also be included. I would request a causal argument, or evidence for the criticisms, not just unbased smears.

    Most of the negative opinions about the bible are from irrational bias, in my experience, not anything tangible within the texts. It is indoctrinated hostility, from a competing worldview, not anything inherent in the manuscripts.

    But there is no doubt that this simple collection of books, spanning thousands of years, has an impact on people. They love or hate it with passionate intensity.. few are neutral.. whether they have read it, or not.

    I think you overstate any 'disagreement!' among the major Christian denominations you listed. They agree more than they disagree, regarding the canon. That is a popular misconception, though, promoted by hostile enemies of the book.
     
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  19. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    An ad hominem attack is when you say someone is wrong about something, not due to evidence, but due to some sort of perceived character flaw. None of that describes by last post. I brought up historical points that contradict the the historical picture you were painting. In particular, you stated: "Contrast that now, to the anti-christian sentiment that pervades the culture. Instead of esteeming the bible, Jesus, and Christian principles, they are mocked, distorted, caricatured, and despised."

    That was true even in the Enlightenment era, and deservedly so. Jefferson thought that most of the Bible was "dung" and that he had to pick out the few "diamonds," hence The Jefferson Bible. Thomas Paine tore into the Bible's ethics, brutally tearing apart its moral failings.
     
  20. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Ad hom is 'to the man', instead of 'to the subject'. Commenting on my motives, intelligence, education, hairstyle, etc are ad hom.

    Refute reasoning all you want. Present facts or evidence to support your points. But ad hom is a fallacy, and is a tactic for losers.

    Critique the bible, if you wish, and provide quotes or evidence for your opinions. But snark or comments about me are irrelevant and fallacious.
     

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