The Big Lie is (unfortunately) winning

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Durandal, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Big Lie is (unfortunately) winning

    ...

    In January, 59% said they have confidence that elections in this country reflect the will of the people, while 40% said they lacked that confidence.

    Today? A majority of Americans -- 52% -- say they do not have confidence that elections reflect the will of the people, while 48% say they do.

    That's a significant swing in less than a year, in the exact wrong direction. And it's primarily fueled by Republicans, 76%(!) of whom say they had just a little or no confidence in elections reflecting the will of the people.

    ... https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/politics/big-lie-republican-belief-trump/index.html

    You can see here how conservatism in this country is becoming increasingly unhinged and removed from reality. The Chosen One and his fellow liars are simply repeating non-stop, still unable to produce evidence to substantiate the claim, that the 2020 election was "rigged." The more they say it and the more other people repeat it, however, the more "true" it becomes in people's minds. This is why it is termed the Big Lie. More about that:

    The big lie (German: große Lüge) is a gross distortion or misrepresentation of the truth, used especially as a propaganda technique.[1][2] The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie so colossal that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler claimed the technique was used by Jews to blame Germany's loss in World War I on German general Erich Ludendorff, who was a prominent nationalist political leader in the Weimar Republic. Historian Jeffrey Herf says the Nazis used the idea of the original big lie to turn sentiment against Jews and bring about the Holocaust.

    Herf maintains that Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi Party actually used the big lie propaganda technique that they described – and that they used it to turn long-standing antisemitism in Europe into mass murder.[3] Herf further argues that the Nazis' big lie was their depiction of Germany as an innocent, besieged land striking back at international Jewry, which the Nazis blamed for starting World War I. Nazi propaganda repeatedly claimed that Jews held power behind the scenes in Britain, Russia, and the United States. It spread claims that the Jews had begun a war of extermination against Germany, and it used these claims to assert that Germany had a right to annihilate the Jews as self-defense.[4]

    In the 21st century, the term has been applied to Donald Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election. The big lie in this instance is the false claim that the election was stolen from him through massive electoral fraud and voter fraud, and the scale of the claim's proponents eventually culminated with Trump supporters attacking the U.S. Capitol.[5][6]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

    This tactic they are using can't accomplish any good for the country. It does not help our democracy for a majority of the people to doubt the integrity of our elections when there is no factual basis for it. All this can accomplish is to end our democracy entirely and bring about some form of authoritarianism.
     
  2. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

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    You are right but there is nothing we can do for them.

    No external help can cure someone who's intoxicated with conspiracy theories.

    Because whoever tries to change his mind inspires distrust and eventually becomes a member of the plot.

    We never get out of it. And you have many examples here that demonstrate this.

    In the end, do we really want to build a country with these people?

    If anything, Trump has discouraged millions of Conservatives from voting.

    He has undermined confidence in the system within his own ranks.

    I think that's a good thing.

    Because this country couldn't survive a second Trump term.
     
  3. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I think more telling is the actual question/answer, not the slanted view given the 2020 elections. So let's actually take what's given to us and see if we can find a more, uh, pressing issue. "elections reflect the will of the people"

    So, what is the "will of the people"? Is it just that candidate X is elected? There is some small truth to this, yes, but you do a mass group of people a disservice if you think they wake up thinking Trump not being POTUS is the greatest misfortune to befall their lives(rofl.)

    Rather, we are not represented period. How could we be in a country where our Congress funds foreign nations with their gender studies(who rewards us by bombing our people, literally a couple of months later.) How can we be, when an impeachment was held over funds that we citizens in 2014 in a poll said we were against(the Ukrainian funds!)

    Would it even be thinkable for our framers, for the US House to delegate US taxpayer money to foreign nations? So of course our will isn't reflected, it hasn't been reflected in years, and certainly the past few decades. Much larger issues in US History than the outcome of the 2020 election electing Joe Biden.
     
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  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The Big Lie wasn't about the baseless yet repeated notion that the election was somehow stolen from Trump. The Big Lie is (and has been) the idea that the US is a representative democracy. The US used to be a more sophisticated oligarchy where competing interests had a voice and could settle their differences (and forge compromises to bridge them) more or less peacefully under accepted rules. That oligarchy is no longer functioning as it used to because the more hegemonic and monopolistic forces within it have fanned the passions and fissures in American political culture in directions which are fundamentally incompatible the myths and ideals which America's civic society was built on the past few decades. In a manner of saying, the biggest fraudsters in American politics became the voices to expose the lies of their foes (and anything else they could rightly or wrongly claim were lies) while being totally unashamed and unhindered in promoting any lies that they fancied or served their interest and/or agendas.
     
  5. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    You are not represented? You gotta be kidding me. The Senate is 50/50, but almost 42 million more voters voted for the Dem side. So I laugh about your crying about lack of representation. Minority rule is not a lack of representation. And let's not even talk about the EC and the SC. If not for GOP minority rule, Trump would have never had a chance to get close to the WH.

    Now, if you want to cry about your GOP politicians not representing you, you can thank the GOP too. Their SC picks foisted Citizens United on us, which opened the floodgates of unlimited money in politics. So you cry about big money buying politicians? Look no further than the guys YOU voted for.
     
  6. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol…you have a majority of repubs still spouting trump’s big lie, and enlarging it to fit any election they lose, so your notion that the cult isn’t still gnashing its teeth and plotting insurrection is laughable.
     
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  7. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    You oppose foreign aid. That's fine, but twisting that into "we're not represented" is beyond ridiculous.
     
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  8. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have a misunderstanding about the senate. You know that the senate was created for equal representation, and not proportional representation, right?
    This is like 5th grade civics we are talking about.
     
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  9. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I dont have confidence in the integrity of elections.

    That's "unhinged"?

    Keep drawing a line in the sand failing to understand or even care why people feel that way. That just reinforces our feelings.
     
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  10. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    I guess that would depend on the "why"
     
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  11. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Believing the Big Lie may not be unhinged, but it is certainly abnormal.

    I'll borrow this from the RW: **** your feelings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  12. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a constant push from the left to impose or oppose rules that relieves the ability to police elections to retain integrity.

    The claim is always to protect disenfranchised groups, whom are always voting democrat. That in itself seems suspect.

    I dont trust the governement doing about any task... doing elections and then working VERY hard to hide the process and eliminate safeguards. Yeah.... suspect.
     
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  13. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seems that perspective is the basis of the OP. The problem is, remember power and control swings. The left likes to implement policy that serves their immediate needs then oppose it when used by the right. Senate filibuster rules as an example.

    When the tides shift, and the elections turn right and there is no safeguards or integrity, don't go crying. Mkay?
     
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  14. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    You know you could fix all this with just ONE signature verification audit right?

    The fact your side refuses to even allow ONE should tell you why we don’t trust you or the electoral process.

    You cannot stonewall verification of the vote and then cry when people don’t trust that the vote isn’t rigged.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find it funny that so many hate a President that is transparent and tells you what he thinks and instead prefers a life long politician for President that lies to gain power and then does whatever they want.
     
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  16. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Let’s assume for a moment trump runs in 2024 and wins. He wins an election he’s not supposed to win and he cheated. He had people introduce fraudulent ballots into the system and had his Republican controlled counties stonewall any signature verification audits to verify the vote.

    Would you trust that he won it fair and square if the republicans refused to allow you to verify?
     
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  17. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

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    The claim is always to protect disenfranchised groups, whom are always voting democrat. That in itself seems suspect.[/QUOTE]

    The country has never had an election integrity problem and the measures adopted in red states are only intended to reassure the voter base intoxicated by Trump's lies.

    Your main problem is that the GOP has become toxic.

    For the past 14 years, no Republican candidate for the Presidency can hope to win a majority of the vote.

    And the gap is widening every year.

    All you have left is gerrymandering and the adoption of election laws that restrict the minority vote as a weapon to counteract the trend.
     
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  18. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Good ole ad hominem attacks. The first sign of someone who is incapable of defending their position.
     
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  19. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Ballots are verified as they're being counted. Trump lost. Suck it up.
     
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  20. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Position? Lmfao. I don't have to defend myself from a conspiracy theory.

    Conspiracy believers = stupid. I think my "position" is well supported.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  21. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

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    Before asking yourself false existential questions to indulge in your Trumpist cult, start by accepting the fact that Biden was elected fair and square.
     
  22. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    No they’re not verified while they’re being counted. Source that bullshit. How do you verify them when they’re being counted when they’ve already been removed from the envelopes?
     
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  23. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    You could prove us all wrong with one comparisons of the total names of those that voted and the total vote count.

    The fact your side refuses to do this in even one state tells us that you know there is no fraud.
     
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  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Accept the fact that Biden was sold as one thing and is doing another which has turned out to be a disaster.
     
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  25. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Every child's story begins with "Once upon a time."

    Every CT'ers story begins with "Let's assume for a moment."

    Try reality for a change. Let's start there.
     
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