The Big Lie is (unfortunately) winning

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Durandal, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    You mean like in the red highlighted part in the my post. You know, the part you edited out. Look, the guy won by a larger margin than he did when he won the seat initially. Its a blow-out win.


    So do I. 60% is the norm in CA, and Newsome got 64%.

    You claimed 85% of Californians are Dems, and I proved that to be a steamy heap of BS. You need to learn to own your words.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  2. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we should replace them with docile Mexicans who vote the way you prefer.
     
  3. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    How 'bout a predicate.
     
  4. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I partially agree with AmericanNationalist. We all work hard to earn our money. Why isn't it being used for OUR country, our people FIRST. I'm sorry if that sounds selfish but who gives us trillions of dollars to help build out country?

    And, if we have trillions, why are there any homeless people, hungry children, veterans that can't get the mental health support they need. Any kid with the academic scores need to go to college should be able to go to college. We should be investing in our people and our ideals. We had no business going into somebody else's country and trying to make the bend their centuries long method for doing things the way they want to do them. We basically wasted trillions of dollars and lost American lives and civilian Afghani lives for what?
     
  5. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Representation and foreign aid are not mutually exclusive. If I give $100 to charity, that doesn't mean I'm not "representing" my grandchildren.

    If foreign aid is in the nation's interest, then foreign aid is indeed representing us.
     
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  6. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    Correct, it is. We have had companies in the past that have been found guilty of laundering money for criminals, it is not unheard of

    The same cannot be said of a flat earth.
     
  7. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Your grandchildren aren't entitled necessarily to your income(especially in the case if they're not in your primary care(ie: responsibility.) That job is atypically on their parents/and or legal guardians. Where the comparison falls apart is that the US Government is supposed to have US as the primary care/responsibility, I've used the phrase shareholders quite often to describe this.

    There's no other company, that runs quite like America runs. In a fortune 500 company, the shareholders would quite/sell en masse if the company were not focused on making them a profit, that's the only reason you invest(be a shareholder) to begin with.

    It is the most pressing issue of our time, that our politicians cannot and will not represent us financially, and therefore stabilize the conditions which allow conspiracy theories to fester. Ask Mr. @MJ Davies on how crime thrives in impoverished areas. People take advantage of the weak and defenseless, and by the government caring more about abroad than at home, it lets more and more of our areas be impoverished.
     
  8. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I understand that. My question is how does 20 years in Afghanistan and trillions of dollars toward that the helping us? I was reading the stats the other day and now 37% of Aghani girls can read. That's great but what our American students that might need some help with their academic studies. More often than not, people generally live around where they were born so investing in our kids' literacy and other academic programs helps us too.

    Why are we all working, paying our taxes and there's no food when we get to the table.
     
  9. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    So what, and how do you know I'm not the legal guardian? It was an example.
    We are a nation, not a company. As a nation, we can give foreign aid while representing the people. Again, the foreign aid IS representing us.
     
  10. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    I think the question was worded poorly, to put it mildly. Whether CNN did it on purpose or just hires incompetent people I cannot say for sure, though I suspect the former so that they have a a story to run with and get more clicks on their page.

    I am not trying to sell anything, I am giving my opinion.

    You disagree with it, time will tell which of us is correct.
     
  11. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Nobody's perfect. Doesn't mean it's an either/or proposition.
     
  12. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    You're right, we have way more mouths to feed and towns to protect and grow than a company does its daily profits. That means that what goes for a company should go double, if not triple for us as a nation. It doesn't represent us, it hasn't lifted a single person out of poverty, we look to raise taxes while wasting this money. Without this waste, perhaps we could have UHC? Hasn't any Democrat looked at the correlation of us taking on European security, with the European prosperity?

    It seems blatantly obvious that the US using its GDP for other nations can result in THEIR prosperity or at least stability, and it's a cold war era strategy, but the consequences gave us Donald Trump and will result in more instability. it's time to care more for at home.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The Big Lie is (unfortunately) winning

    Oh my gosh. You mean conservatives are also capable of swaying public opinion? I never thought I would see the day. But is a good thing. Election security is a problem and shedding light on it is positive. People should have confidence in election results. In fact I that is critical.
     
  14. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump's Big Lie is changing the face of American politics

    ...

    Longer term, the fact that tens of millions of Americans were seduced by Trump's lies about election fraud poses grave questions about the future of America's democratic political architecture itself. Ultimately, if a large minority of the population no longer has faith in rule by the people for the people, how long can that system survive? And if the will of millions of people is no longer expressed through voting, what other outlets are there? Already, the January 6 insurrection has shown what happens when aggrieved groups -- in this case incited by a massive lie -- take matters into their own hands.

    Trump's great success in creating his own version of a new truth about the election and his still-magnetic talent for spinning myths into which his supporters can buy is revealed in a new CNN poll released Wednesday.

    The survey finds that 36% of Americans don't think Biden legitimately got sufficient votes to win last November. On the one hand, that means a handy majority does believe Biden won fair and square. On the other, however, a restive one-third minority in a nation of 330 million can be a powerful and destructive force. Among Republicans, 78% believe Biden did not win the election and 54% believe that there is solid evidence to support such a view, according to the poll, even though no evidence exists and multiple courts and states and the US Congress certified a victory that Trump's Justice Department said was untainted by significant fraud. ... Trump's Big Lie is changing the face of American politics - CNNPolitics

    This is unamerican, unpatriotic madness of Trump's creation, and it is an existential threat to our Republic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  15. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Chi, I'm not saying it's one or the other.

    What I'm having a difficult time with is we just spent all that money and it's like time travel happened because they are right back where they were before we showed up. In the business world, that makes no sense. You don't just keep doing the same and expect different results.

    Why can't we invest some of that money in us.
     
  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not what this is, though. Election security is actually not a problem. It's one of the right wing's latest fever dreams, but not an actual problem. This whole thing was raised by Trump because he claims that he won the last election and will not relent. He claims there is evidence of fraud, but there is none.

    People had confidence in the election results right up until Donald Trump, the new messiah of the alt-right, declared that they should not and they believed him unquestioningly, as they tend to do.
     
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  17. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    Kinda like with COVID, when the government starts lying about things, people lose trust. There were plenty of lies about the 2020 election told by people like Governor Shemp in GA and other places. Then, you have the monumental efforts to fight election transparency at every step, which further undermines confidence in the system. Actual problems are swept under the rug and denied instead of being addressed.

    Democrats and RINOs, through their incompetent and dishonest actions and words, have done more to promote "The Big Lie"* than Trump ever did.

    * never proven untrue
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  18. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    There is always a lag time for reporting accurate numbers, so for 2021, we’ll be using what was allocated and planned for 2020 (these numbers may differ with what was actually paid out last year). In this year, the United States planned to spend $43 billion in foreign aid (it allocated the same amount for 2019, and ultimately spent $45 billion).

    Foreign aid by country: Who's getting the most — and how much? (concernusa.org)


    Current dollar GDP increased 3.6 percent, or $191.7 billion, in the fourth quarter to a level of $21.73 trillion.

    Gross Domestic Product, Fourth Quarter and Year 2019 (Advance Estimate) | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)


    $43 billion is a pittance compared to GDP. $43 billion does not get us in the same universe with UHC.

    I don't agree with your opposition to foreign aid, but I respect that like any other rational opinion. What I don't see is how $43 billion is going to make a lick of difference here at home.

    You wanna cut spending? Look here:

    On March 11, 2019, President Donald J. Trump sent Congress a proposed Fiscal Year (FY) 2020 Budget request of $750 billion for national security

    DOD Releases Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Proposal > U.S. Department of Defense > Release


    Should be very easy to squeeze $43 billion from the defense budget.
     
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was so ‘not a problem’ that democrats as late as 2018 were complaining about it. Now that democrats created over 300 court cases to change election laws, sometimes unconstitutionally, they are fully invested in doing the exact opposite of what they complained about, that is they are making elections less secure. They at least bamboozled you into believing their propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  20. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    We do.

    DOD Releases Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Proposal > U.S. Department of Defense > Release
     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    In the context of what I was saying, those who are now driving and/or are being driven by the GOP, particularly ever since Trump but beginning actually in the mid 90s (after the cold war and fall of the SU). I can write a lengthy essay to explain and expand on it, but for now, I will give you my short answer to your question.

    p.s.
    the 1950s, part of which includes the McCarthy era, wasn't exactly all that civil and peachy either...
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  22. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then maybe you should read the poll for yourself. Its very clear. concise, and consistent.
    It run by SSRS, one of the worlds largest poll providers. CNN uses them almost exclusively. So the theory they hired incompetent people goes out the window.

    You will just have to deal with the fact that a majority of Americans don't buy into the voter numbers reported and with good reason.

    There isn't any confusion or miswording. AN 8th grader could answer it without any confusion.
    http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/15/rel5e.-.elections.pdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  23. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    I did read the poll.

    Well, as I said I had suspected it was done on purpose to achieve a desired outcome.

    True. But the spin that CNN is putting on it is not supported by the question.

    One can lack confidence that elections in America today reflect the will of the people without believing that millions of fraudulent votes were added in all across the nation. The former does not lead to the latter.
     
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  24. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Banned

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    That's not even the claim, necessarily. Just some shenanigans in 5 swing states, not necessarily "millions of votes".
     
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  25. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Who needs votes when you can predict the outcome of an election beforehand?

    Democrats knew exactly where to cheat, and by how much. Ridiculous.
     

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