"The brain hasn't turned on yet, so it's okay to kill"

The PREGNANT one shouldn't decide on her pregnancy!!! THAT IS ASSININE..

Of bloody course there is!!


A barrel of oil, it's cost and regulations, AFFECT people, LOTS OF PEOPLE.....


A woman having an abortion doesn't affect anyone but her....and those who think that women are cattle and should be forced to gestate( rapists like FORCING women, TOO)...and need a reason to control women...

 

How about a few "sane and reasonable" regulations?
You know, a few forms of paperwork to fill out, some permits, a license, waiting periods, a review... maybe throw a few special taxes and fees on top of that as well...

 

Because they aren't sane nor reasonable... no one else has to do that to have a medical procedure..

 

What about when that medical procedure is euthanasia?

Michael Schiavo had to have a court order to pull the plug on his wife.

 

Some paperwork is probably necessary, no license, no taxes or fees......after all in THAT case you're talking about a PERSON WITH RIGHTS..... a fetus has no rights.


""".....and those who think that women are cattle and should be forced to gestate (rapists like FORCING women, TOO)...and need a reason to control women..."""

 

No one wants to force a woman to breed. She did that herself.

Sorry, when the heart starts beating and electrical signals start flickering on in that brain, she's just going to have to stay the course and row that boat to safety.

 

Some paperwork is probably necessary, no license, no taxes or fees......after all in THAT case you're talking about a PERSON WITH RIGHTS..... a fetus has no rights.


""".....and those who think that women are cattle and should be forced to gestate (rapists like FORCING women, TOO)...and need a reason to control women..."""

Oh, isn't that cute....and meaningless... you don't know what "GESTATE " means !!!???? Wow.... and you're arguing about women and pregnancy and abortion and you don't knw what GESTATE MEANS!!!!

Why? Because you say so ???

 

No.

So more government? Aren't you Conservatives suppose be for less government in our lives?

Since you love thought experiments so much, here is one for you;

Imagine you are a 17 year old high school student in Texas. You are experiencing your first real romantic relationship and you are also dreaming about college. Your girlfriend has big dreams too and one night you both lose your virginity to one another. A couple weeks later, your girlfriend comes to you and tells you she is pregnant with a shaking voice.

What do you do?

Your girlfriend is scared her religious family will find out and she is definitely not ready to be a mother -- She is too young and still has to graduate high school and aims at pursuing her college degree. You too are not ready for fatherhood and would definitely not want to sacrifice your bright future. Could you even raise a child as 17 year old high school dropouts?

The clerc at the gas station your girlfriend bought the pregnancy test at is a law abading citizen and has done what the Texas Heartbeat Bill says and reported her. You are both in big trouble.

What happens? Her parents would never accept it and you are both still too young for a shotgun-wedding. Your parents are not willing to waste your college funds on another baby.

What do you do? "Row the boat to saftey"? What would that mean in this scenario?

 

Focusing on school when you are in the later stages of pregnancy is something not even Wonder Woman could handle. Your parents are not too interested in looking after another family's pregnant teenage daughter and do not have the time or money for that anyways. Her family would kick her out the moment they found out.

Decide to keep it? Then you both have to drop out bevause you will need money to look after her, but what job can you get as a high school dropout? As if that is not already difficult enough, you would need even more money once you are a father. Your college fund could maybe help out a little in the beginning, but then what?

Give it up for adoption? 9 months of emotional hell for both of you only to hand the baby over to adoption? That would mess up especially her, but also your, studies, jeopopardising your futures. How easy is it to give up a child for abortion and how easy is to live a normal knowing your offspring is in the hands of a very unsafe foster care system?

I would say abortion is the answer and that denying you two that would be truly monstrous, but that is just me.

 

No it doesn't. FUNCTIONING brain is the determinant. If the fetus lacks a central nervous system and therefore feels nothing, and is aware of nothing, then killing that fetus is not substantially different from it never having been conceived in the first place.

 

Don't think you thought far enough .. - When the brain turns off - significant brain function gone - coroner pulls the plug - dirt nap begins.
So is it prior to brain turning on ... dirt nap is still ongoing .. there is no "Me" - there is no person.

When someone is in a coma -- they still have significant brain function - machines not needed to keep person alive because brain is still carrying out those basic functions ... when it stops doing that -- someone already on a machine to live .. .. they are gone - no one home no more

 

I think you are totally missing the point of what I was saying. Going out of your way to miss the point.

The opening post was presenting you with a hypothetical, and trying to use that hypothetical to get you to think.


For another thing, during a coma in many situations the level of brain function is reduced. It may not be "brain death" but the functionality can often be much below normal.

 

Totally addressed what you were saying ... and is you who did not do much thinking - whereas I have thought a fair bit about the issue .. and done some investigation - read some papers .. things you have not done.

What part of "People in a coma still have significant brain function" -- was not clear from the previous post ? - you are not understanding what this means .. .. functions like your heart beating (and no there is no heart-beat at 6 weeks) is controlled by your brain .. and other even lower base functions .. - these are gone - the lights have gone out ... -- this is what is meant by "brain dead" when doctor pulls the plug.. it is not some arbitrary point...

After someone dies - the cells in your brain remain active for a fairly long time before they finally die - this is not "Significant brain activity" - despite being coordinated = beyond just the electrical activity you can measure from the activity of an individual cell.. There are still consortial activities taking place .. much like we see in bacterial consortia - things such as "quorum sensing" - measurable electrical waves .. ..

 

people that do not believe in souls are anti-abortion as they think all there is is the vessel

the reality is, the soul enters after conception when the vessel can support it and can leave before death when the body can no longer support it

your soul just hops to the next soul if one can't support it

 

That is a pretty interesting idea. You articulated very well.

 

What?

There is no such thing as a "soul".

Leave your religious superstitions out of politics, please.

 

There are no sane and reasonable regulations on the right to abortion. It is also rather hilarious the an alleged champions of small government on The Right would profess regulations -- Don't you have any principles at all?

Why?

 

Why are you against people enjoying sex?

Why?

 

I see, so that's what this is all about.

 

You could ask the same thing about Slavery or the Holocaust.

For those who don't believe such a thing as ethics or morality exist, I can see why you would have a hard time understanding why that should be.

 

Ritter said: ↑
Why are you against people enjoying sex?

It seems to be for the Anti-Choicers....

 

soul, life force, whatever you want to call it, the you that is not your body

if one believes all we are is our body, nothing more, then I can see one being anti-coice, no matter what

 

What?

Ethics and morality are very much real things. But, I would love to hear you define the two.

 

We have a body and a mind. There is no me that is not me.

 

There is The Golden Rule, for starters.


Then you'll no doubt be familiar with the difference between negative rights and positive rights. (For example letting a homeless person starve to death versus setting their cardboard box on fire while they are sleeping, the latter clearly being seen as more of an ethical violation)