The Case Against Capitalism

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by DarkSkies, Apr 1, 2016.

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  1. dnsmith

    dnsmith New Member

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    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
    Winston Churchill
     
  2. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    I've acknowledged the wealth generating capabilities of capitalism already. It was one of the first things listed in my chart.

    It is not my intention to prove anything contrary about capitalism. Matter of fact, it is my intention to make a case against capitalism by explaining its own mechanisms and the damage it leaves in its wake. The USSR space program is an example of a non capitalist system advancing science and technology. Many modern day advancements in research and development are spearheaded by government. The capitalist model provides efficiencies for advancements, but major hinderances as well due to its profit motives.

    Lastly, there is nothing theoretical about people sharing in the wealth under socialism. "Everyone" is an incredible stretch though, but no, I can provide examples of socialist states, even one in America, where the "theory" has been working without issue for quite some time. The "Equally Poor" rally cries against alternative systems is carryon propaganda from a long time ago. I am willing to address all the other claims, but this thread is about the case against capitalism, not the case for or against other systems.
     
  3. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's all the fault of that pesky law of comparative advantage which so many are unaware of. Lowest prices leave more discretionary income for US goods and services.
     
  4. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    Guess why jobs are fleeing overseas though? "Free Trade."

    Which system touts "Free Trade?"

    -Capitalism

    Who benefits from surges in immigration if not those entities trying to suppress wages?

    Which economic system loves a suppressed waged?

    -Capitalism
     
  5. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Donor

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    If capitalism is the worst economic system then why have most (even the communist Russia, China, and Vietnam) governments converted to it ?? The Soviet space program is an example of capitalism being used by a communist government. The meaning of profits as an indicator of optimum resource allocation has been explained. Positive profits is a much better judge of resource allocation than a five year plan created by the consensus (they can't even agree 100% whilst the market can) a group of experts.

    And it is factual that the amount of wealth to be "shared" under a capitalistic system is much greater than the wealth under any other economic system. Hence Deng Xiaoping's statement above.

    Since capitalism is the best economic system it is pointless to argue the case against it. It is superior to all other economic systems. If one is in poverty the US is the best place to be in poverty. Why is that ??
     
  6. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    Not free trade obviously but rather because of liberal taxes, liberal unions, and liberal deficits and, less directly, the liberal attack on families, schools, and religion. Do you understand?
     
  7. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    exactly!!! USSR produced not on consumer product innovation ever!! Yet our liberals look at that system and want to copy it. 100% anti- science, anti-reason and perfectly liberal. A liberal will look at East/West Germany and want to copy East Germany. 100% backwards but that's what happens when the common man feels entitled to an opinion about matters he cant possibly understand.
     
  8. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    yes, a liberal wants a new system whereby people are forced at the point of a gun to buy more expensive items on the theory that will make them better off. Its 1+1=3 liberal thinking.
     
  9. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    many many less than private sector since there is no profit motive. Its easy for govt to waste other peoples money but very hard for the private sector to waste it. Who is a faster runner or better researcher someone who does it for fun or someone who does it as a matter of life and death?
     
  10. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    Competition under capitalism is different than competition under socialism/communism. Besides, you are omitting all the other factors that make the USSR space program a decisively socialist/communist endeavor.

    Adam Smith advocated a laissez faire type of capitalism. This does not take away from the fact that capitalism itself existed long before he did. Anyways here's some direct examples of what slave trading had to do with capitalism:

    Slaves, especially under chattel slavery, were part of economic systems of profit; chattel was capital, slaves were property

    Wall Street, New York, operated its first slave market to buy, sell, and trade human beings

    Banks capitalized the slave trade and insurance companies underwrote it

    Profits made from slave labor was reinvested elsewhere


    Regarding the Chinese standard of living, I believe it is alright to acknowledge the wealth capitalism brings. However, I can also note the complaints that between the air pollution, the lack of drinking water due to water pollution, the dwindling education standards, and the growing income equality, how they got that wealth may not be all that it's cracked up to be. Articles about studies asking rich Chinese people why they are leaving China is the basis for my claim of people clamoring to get out China. They do well financially, but I'm sure they miss the clean air and water. What are you trying to do when you single out Bejing in your last statement? Most Chinese cities fail air quality standards.
     
  11. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    yes USSR had a good space program and Cuba has good health care but per capita income was/is about $56/week. What does that teach you?
     
  12. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    slavery was 10,000 years old and existed all over the world but has nothing to do with capitalism since capitalism is recent and about voluntary economic relationships. 1+1=2
     
  13. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    but all succeed greatly at keeping people alive and in far far better health than they were in under libsocialism wherein 60 million slowly starved to death. Now do you understand?
     
  14. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    I believe countries convert to capitalist systems because they are forced to. Economic, financial, and trade sanctions are pretty good tools to get other countries to conform to a standard. Not only that but military force. America actually had a Cold War with the Russians and another war with the Vietnamese because of their economic choices.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on the Soviet space program being an example of capitalism. I believe I gave strong enough arguments to counter this hilarious claim. I also notice how you are conveniently attributing the positive outcomes of socialism/communism to capitalism as you attribe the negative things to socialism/communism.

    Oh no, there is no argument on capitalism's ability to generate wealth. My argument is that it does, but at grave and future-sacrificing costs.

    It is mainstream opinion that the capitalist system is the best one. Since I hold an opposing belief, I see no issue with me arguing a case against it.

    Your last question is a trick question AFAIC. As long as people live near resources that can sustain them, they shouldn't be fleeced through a system like capitalism.
     
  15. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    you mean by the slow starvation that killed 120 million in the USSR and Red China when they were libsocialist?
     
  16. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    Gotta be fair, I did put Free Trade in quotes.


    Under capitalism, things like taxes and unions are needed to keep citizens from being left destitute. Capitalism chases the lowest wage possible right after providing a higher standard of living. Of course some intervention will take place when people want to maintain the standard of living. I hope you understand.


    Regarding the liberal attack on families, schools, and religion, I believe that is a whole other issue. I personally don't like that factions that comprise of communities are attacked.
     
  17. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    100% wrong of course. The highest taxes in the world and liberal unions drove 35 million jobs to offshore. Thats how you make people destitute
     
  18. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    100% wrong!!! OMG capitalism forces the best possible wages and products in the entire world just to
    survive. If you doubt it try going into business with a less than competitive job or product!! Now do you understand??

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    ???? this is gibberish English!!
     
  19. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    You are highlighting a problem with the private sector. If there is no profit motive, there is no advancement. Much of modern advancement comes from the government or government funding.
     
  20. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    It teaches me that the other systems do things far better than capitalism especially in certain areas like scientific/technological advancements and healthcare.

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    Capitalism is not recent. Please read about the origins of capitalism anywhere. You're probably thinking of "Free-Market" capitalism. 1-1=0 points for you.
     
  21. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    I understand that without government intervention in the capitalist system, millions more people would have died from it. Pretending otherwise keeps folks from evaluating alternative systems that are more considerate of externalities to the system and the workers within.
     
  22. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    wrong of course govt intervention is more likely to cause death than prevent it. Thats the basic American idea. Why did you think we had very very limited govt anyway? And why did you think we are by far the most successful country in human history?
     
  23. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    In order for entities under capitalism to remain competitive, it is in their best interest to obtain capital resources, including human resources, for the lowest price possible. This is why things like NAFTA was crafted. It is extremely attractive to companies to send jobs overseas in order to exploit slave-wage labor. Now do you understand?

    I've could've worded my second statement better I guess. All I was saying was that I don't like when community/groups are attacked. I hope that's a bit more clear. Apologies for that.
     
  24. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    While government should be limited, it is still supposed to be effective enough for national and economic defense. America is the most successful country in human history because of its policies, its freedoms, and its peoples' ability to extract from capitalism what it would otherwise leave them without. Unions and other interventionist means created a strong middle class. Capitalism was leaving dead children under hot factory floors for goodness sakes. Do not forget this.
     
  25. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    what you mean is the lowest prices possible consistent with providing the best jobs and products in the world just to survive. If you doubt try going into business with the worst jobs and products. Now you can understand why capitalism raises our standard of living at the fastest possible rate!

    When China switched to it they instantly eliminated 40% of all the planets poverty. Capitalism is a glorious gift from God.

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    the most important and notable of which is freedom from big liberal govt. Make sense?
     
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