The Case Against Capitalism

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by DarkSkies, Apr 1, 2016.

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  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    we beat capitalism.
     
  2. dnsmith

    dnsmith New Member

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    That is exactly why socialism always fails. Eventually the high achievers slow down to match the low achievers and all but the leaders join into poverty. The fact that the poor get lobster and steak further weakens their economy lowering the poverty line putting more people under it. Lobster and Steak to the poor outlandish. There is no such thing as economic equality except in pipe dreams of those who do not understand it, or don't care if the people are economic slaves.
     
  3. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the bolded, the New Deal funded by the government for example.

    Regarding the rest, Socialism works though. Examples include Alaska, the most socialist state in America where income from oil producers are redistributed to its citizens. Also Germany pre WWII where standard of living raised sharply and wealth generated.

    Xiaoping and supporters probably went for the grass is greener on the other side schtick. But, it definitely is greener now. The wealthy leaving China are leaving because of...(I'll let them tell explain):

    [video=youtube;oUNOdXtO0ws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUNOdXtO0ws[/video]
     
  4. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    very true! In fact, a recession is the time it takes for capitalism to rebuild from libsocialist destruction. For example, after the housing crash many realtors, carpenters, and mortgage brokers had to learn new skills and get new jobs in the productive, sustainable private sector before they could earn a living.
     
  5. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    Nah didn't really overlook it. Just don't understand why it's brought up when those who bring it up defend a system (capitalism) that is responsible for far greater number of deaths.
     
  6. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, Venezuela has more than their fair share of them. The shelves are bare and the daughter of Hugo is the richest citizen of Venezuela.
     
  7. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    and in so doing eliminated 40% of the all the poverty on earth thanks to capitalism! Or, prevented another 60 million human souls from slowly starving to death under libsocialism. Image how depraved America must be if half are advocates for a system that slowly starved 60 million to death? Sad.
     
  8. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    As they are being lifted out of poverty, they are fleeing the country. Feel free to take a look at the video I shared for some of the cited reasons they are leaving the country. In case you don't, know that filthy air, food, and water pollution is cited among the many reasons. The wealth is leaving the country!!! What good is capitalism if it trashes everything and leaves once the destruction is over???!!!
     
  9. dnsmith

    dnsmith New Member

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    Absolute nonsense!
     
  10. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    yes enough to eliminate 40% of all the poverty on earth!! As a liberal I'm sure you would have preferred the old system that slowly starved 60 million to death. Who brainwashed you to think 60 million slowly starving is a good thing?
     
  11. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Donor

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    The new deal programs (NRA & AAA) were economic disasters and repealed.

    Alaska is not an example of socialism. The gov of Alaska does not run the oil companies. The oil companies pay state taxes. There is a budget surplus which is refunded to the citizens of Alaska. Alaska is an example of the benefits of capitalism.

    Oh please, you aren't using the Nazi party and government to prove that national socialism works are you ??

    Wealthy people leave many countries - the 3 minute video proves nothing. There is no data. How many of these super millionaires have left ??
     
  12. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    I'm so tempted to start a thread outlining all the deaths caused by capitalism...
     
  13. dnsmith

    dnsmith New Member

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    Baloney!
     
  14. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    how is eliminating 40% of all the poverty on earth destruction??? 1+1=2. Did you know that poverty is considered a very bad thing??

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    why not just tell us your single best example. What are you so afraid of?????????
     
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Donor

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    Again the video proves nothing. Capitalism has lifted a huge number of poor Chinese out of poverty as I (and Ted) have reference upthread. The Chinese economy is roughly the size of the US economy at ~ $15T. $160B is insignificant.
     
  16. dnsmith

    dnsmith New Member

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    I felt free. Still utter nonsense. long term state socialism never succeeds and the longer it is followed the less the state/people have.
     
  17. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    if true why so afraid to present your best example?? What did you learn from your fear??
     
  18. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Donor

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    Please do. You've been asked repeatedly to provide data in support of the claim that capitalism is responsible for many times more deaths than socialism.
     
  19. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    Yes they now consume more cars and movies than we do here thanks to the greatest economic miracle in human history. Its what happens when you ditch libsocialism. A liberal is anti science. He will look at East/West Germany and conclude the East German system was better. Liberalism is depravity. Not surprising though when you look through human history and see all the crazy deadly stuff people supported.
     
  20. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    They were effective programs. You are citing two out of many as economic disasters and repealed laws, but some of those regulations are still active today.

    Alaska is a superb example of socialism. The citizens are guaranteed income.

    Why can't I use Germany as an example of socialism? Let's stick to economics and leave Godwin's Law alone. We've come so far already in the discussion.

    It proves that a sane person with a lot of money is not going to stick around in a filthy environment. I'll look for the data for how may of them left though.
     
  21. TortoiseDream

    TortoiseDream Active Member

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    They never really reached true socialism, and certainly not communism. But that's the whole problem. Any attempt at socialism leads to centralization of power, central planning, and finally disaster. The USSR and China were worse examples.

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    Keep playing with your dolls.
     
  22. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    Which is worse, living on subsistence farming, retaining your culture, having clean water, air, and food to consume...or living in an incredibly dense metropolis where the work sucks so bad you're tempted to commit suicide on a daily basis, but at least you have some money, but the air, water, and food is contaminated?

    The slave trade, a capitalist trade mind you, is a great example of deaths and misery caused by capitalism. The 4,000 people dead by pollution due to no regulations under capitalism is another example.
     
  23. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    but there have really only been 132 attempts to find libsocialist nirvana and only 120 million human souls or so who have starved to death. I think with a promising record like that they deserve another chance!! 133 is the charm!!
     
  24. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    ah but you said capitalism killed more than socialism and you did not have one example did you? What do you learn from that?
     
  25. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    The United States

    • 5 years of drone strikes used to maintain US military dominance in the Middle East for the purpose of securing trade routes and oil reserves – 2,400 dead [11][12]
    • Syrian Civil War caused by the US’ funding of Syrian rebels as well as the terrorist organization Al Nusra in an attempt to overthrow the Syrian government [13][14][15][16] – at least 146,000 dead [17][18]
    • US Funded and NATO Intervention in Libya for the sake of overthrowing the government and getting oil [19][20][21] – estimates range from 10,000 by the deniers, to 50,000 by the rebels. The commonly accepted number by the US is 30,000 dead [22][23]
    • United States backed government of Sri Lanka for the sake of maintaining trade routes and neo-liberal foothold in southern Asia – 100,000 dead (some sources say 40,000 not including the huge numbers of civilians) [24][25]
    • The War in Iraq which was for the sake of gaining oil controlling petroleum exports [26][27] and with the interest of advancing US imperialism [28] – most recent study indicates 500,000 dead Iraqis and 4,500 dead US soldiers [29][30][31]
    • The War in Afghanistan – 2,000 dead US soldiers and 20,000 civilians [32][33]
    • US bombing of Pakistan for the War on Terror and to maintain our imperial dominance abroad – 50,000 dead [34]
    • US and Mexican War on Drugs to maintain a monopoly and to support military spending as well as drug cartel violence for profit – 47,000 dead [35]
    • Operation Desert Storm (First Gulf War) which was for the sake of maintaining dominance in the Middle East as well as for imperialistic reasons [36][37][38][39] – 158,000 Iraqis [40] – 75,000 US Soldiers dead from the War and Gulf War Syndrome [41]
    • US Sanctions against Iraq from 1990-2012 – 3,300,000 [42]
    • Iran-Iraq War where the United States funded both sides in an attempt to have each wipe the other out – about 1,500,000 [43][44][45]
    • The War in Vietnam to “beat Communism” and maintain an Asian sphere of influence – 3,800,000 Vietnamese between 1955-1984 [46] about 58,000 US soldiers [47] about 200,000 in Laos [48] about 300,000 in Cambodia [49] it’s hard to calculate Agent Orange deaths but up to 4,800,000 people were exposed [50] and 100,000 US soldiers killed themselves [51]
    • Korean War to “beat Communism” and maintain dominance in Asia – 54,000 US soldiers [52] and about 5,000,000 Koreans died [53]

    Genocides and Other Mass Deaths
    ◾Poverty. One of the most overlooked causes of death today is something called “structural violence” – that is, violence against the bottom rungs of society in order to make a profit. Structural violence can occur due to lack of medical care, slashing of wages, gentrification, etc. But without a doubt, structural violence is the largest killer WORLDWIDE. Studies performed by Canadian researches Gernot Kohler and Norman Alcock published under the title “An Empirical Table of Structural Violence” found that 18,000,000 people die each year due to systemic poverty [61][62].

    ◾Slavery – over 1200 years of Arab slave trading and then 500 years of European slave trading amounts to over 100,000,000 people enslaved and killed (there were about 80,000,000 that would just be slaves)[65]
    ◾Children Killed by Preventable Diseases yearly – 5,000,000 [66]
    ◾Children Killed by Hunger daily – 17,000 (multiplying to get a year so 17,000*365=6,205,000) [67]

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    See above^^
     
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