The early fight of christianism against slavery

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by VotreAltesse, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello,

    it was to answer a point in another topic, but my answer would have been totally off-topic, so I open a new one : (@Le Chef)

    Fight against slavery didn't began in the 18th century, in fact, christianism always fought slavery :

    In 325 Constantin forbid to sell a family in a separate ways
    In 524, the council of Lyons try to forbid to put in slavery free people.
    Under the normans, slavery will disappear from England without any formal laws applying it.
    In 1315, the king of France Louis X le hutin forbid slavery in France : Along the law of nature, "everyone should born frank" and it became "the soil of France make people free".
    In 1435, the pope will publish a papal bull punishing by excommunication..
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicut_Dudum
    In 1537, Sublimis Deus claim that native american are human and not beasts as some conquistador pretended, and they should be free.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimis_Deus

    After middle age, they weren't any slave anymore, on the core european ground. I didn't found that back, but for the part I know the best, in France, slave presency were barely tolerated and limited to colonies.
    It's both awfull and wonderfull. Why awfull ? Because it would make slavery in colonies often particulary violent. Why it's wonderfull ? Because the philosophers of the enlightement grew up in slave-free societies, validing the fact that slavery wasn't something normal;

    I see the abolishment of slavery in the 19th centuries as inheritor of those early (christian) fight.
     
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  2. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you very much. In the USA, the Left tries to take credit for abolition, but in fact the leaders of the anti-slavery movement were religious figures, necessarily conservative, though obviously it was a radical position vis a vis slaveholding interests.
     
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  3. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In France, it's globally the same. The republic had to demonize the ancien régime, the kingdom of France to looks better.

    They were three abolition of slavery in France : In 1315 (king Louis X le Hutin), in 1792 (the first republic) and in 1848 (the second republic who would last 4 years).
     
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  4. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’d question the idea that Christianity in general fought slavery. Clearly some people who were (or claimed to be, or were formally presumed to be) Christian were involved in various statements and actions against it (though some of your examples were somewhat conditional and biased) but there were also plenty of actual or purported Christians who continued to support and take part in slavery.

    Slavery was fought by a whole range of strong minded individuals, not any socio-political concept.
     
  5. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Slavery was abolished only in the 70's in a bunch of countries, not all countries fought slavery, and christian countries are among the countries who fought slavery realy early.
    Your statement would be true if every country fought slavery at the same times, which isn't the case.
     
  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, it was individuals who fought slavery, just as it was individuals who supported it. Countries (governments) only acted when their enough people made noise about it to counteract the powerful people continuing to support it. Christianity isn't a clear dividing line on this; some Christians fought slavery and some Christians supported it.
     
  7. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If it was only a matter of individuals, you would have found different abolitions of slavery in different type of societies at the same, time, which isn't the case. Individuals aren't created ex nihilo, they're result of some genetic influence, but mainly from their belief, faith, and cultural influence.
    By the way, slavery was supported by christians, but what I show you there is that there is a long christian tradition of being against slavery, which isn't the case in many other places of the world.

    For the rest of the world, slavery was abolished by the colons, the Bey of Tunis, under the influence of a british diplomate tried to forbid it, without success, it's under colonization that slavery disappeared in Tunisia.
    The ottoman empire officially forbid slavery in 1847, but they were many records of slave in the beginning of the 20th century.

    More interesting, in Japan slavery was abolished by Toyotomi Hideyoshi in 1590 and some chinese emperors tried during the 18th century without success because they were still slaves during the communist revolution.
     
  8. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lots of indications in the Bible that Jesus Christ was utterly indifferent to worldly political arrangements and social institutions. Be nice to others, and don't engage in commerce in the temple, and He'll leave you alone.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A near death experiencer was shown Rabbi Yeshua teaching the following. If he really did........ then both wealthy as well as poor listeners could take away serious food for thought from these ideas.

     

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