The entire Senate is going to the White House for a briefing?

And by the way S.S. "40 Mig-29s" does not mean North Korea has an "effective air force" any more than it did for Iraq.

 

You danced around it again. Come on, Courageous One, tell us exactly what Trump should do. Be specific. Don't use metaphor.

Are you frightened of Kim's threats? Gosh, N.K. has been doing it for decades. Don't be frightened. Kim doesn't mean it.

Personal attacks are a sign of weakness. In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Prove me wrong. Tell us what Trump should do about N.K. Should he attack N.K. for issuing threats? Boy, if that is true, is Iran next? How about Syria, the next time Assad goes chemical? How about attacking the Taliban for killing 145 Afghan troops?

I mean, gee, Courageous one, what makes N.K. so special?

 

Good ideas!! Glad to see you're on board.

 

Shanks- you have got to be brighter than you are making yourself appear to be.That, or you work for North Korea.
You read direct answers and don't see anything- seems to be zipping past you like a bullet, without notice.

This situation has nothing to to with choosing to be aggressive just to be aggressive. I'm not in favor of political wars, so no, this is not like Iran. This is direct threats from a person who is nuts clear to the bone- and has the weaponry to cause huge damage. So how much damage- how many of his threats have to be carried out before you give them credibility? Would one nuclear missile and 100,000 dead change your mind. or, do you even have a limit? I'm guessing you don't as long as it's someone besides you getting incinerated.

It comes down to how much of a chance the world is willing to take that a person like Kim won't finally decide that we really do shake in our boots when he makes these threats, and that nobody will have guts enough to kick his ass. if he carries them out. You seem to think the thing to do is encourage that. Get in the kissing line, I'm sure he loves those that

Kim's line is advancing, growing to larger threats to larger areas as his weapons expand. People like you say oh- excuse me for being so unworthy, I will give you whatever you want... Would you like me to die now, or later? Didn't work in WWII

The question is where and when WE draw the line. Ideally, a coalition of those nations most threatened either by proximity or Kim's direct promises of extinction need to decide that. IF it were me- and it's not- I would recommend stating the situation and consequence perfectly clearly to them. Not a threat, but a promise that would be kept, and quickly. The condition would be that NK must clean up it's act- possibly dis-assemble it's nuclear efforts all together- or the job may be done for him. He has a choice, the fact he may not understand or agree is irrelevant. If he is like you, ignoring reality to write his own logic and believe it- so be it. So IF it became necessary to clean house for him, it should be done as suddenly, intensely and totally as possible by a coalition of forces. Take out all ability to retaliate in any way as quickly as possible, short of nuclear weapons use.

If you think reason or diplomacy will have any real benefit here- I think you are living in darkness somewhere. The most that might be achieved is to postpone the time when we would have to act- and during the interval allow him to improve and expand his power and arsenal, raising the stakes steadily. It worked for Hitler.

Having power is one thing- and we all should have power over our lives and national choices. Giving a threatening power like NK every opportunity to do the right thing is appropriate. Giving them the opportunity to become a responsible citizen of the world is appropriate. But giving them the incentive and opportunity to make things worse is incredibly- stupid, cowardly, foolish, etc- take your pick. They all fit.

We already know what you would do.

 

Mike Pence is VP ... is that close enough for you ?

 

How is Mike Pence a religious zealot?

What beliefs does he have that are not mainstream?

 

lmao you have yet to put forward a coherent argument on this besides vague hand-waving to ill-defined impropriety and trying to shift the discussion to foreign policy.

Implying Mattis and Tillerson aren't the ones pushing this confrontation in the first place. North Korea will strike back- at South Korea, at best.

You have an incredibly simplistic view of foreign policy in Asia. China in the 1950's is incredibly different from China today, and they don't benefit from having a loose cannon like North Korea threatening everyone around them with nuclear weapons.

 

Pence is the "MVP" VP. "Mandatory Vaginal Penetration" candidate. He did not get the bill passed but, the fact that he would even propose such a thing speaks volumes.

This is a thinly veiled way for forcing his religious beliefs on others (women) through law (physical violence).

 

What the devil are you talking about??!??

 

The Devil !! heh heh .. that is what I am talking about.

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...orcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason.html

So if the condom breaks and a woman wants to take the morning after pill ... she has to have a wand stuck up her vagina before and after taking the pill.

 

Yeah, I have heard that about him, but he is just a Trump shill. He may be a religious zealot, but he is hiding it pretty well since he became the veep. To be honest, I don't know him very well, except he drives me crazy when he appears on Chris Wallace. If he ever answered a direct question, I'd have a heart attack.

 

Selecting Pence as VP firmed up the religious right base. He is the kind of fundamentalist that give Christianity a bad name. Truly a piece of human garbage who hates the principles on which this nation was founded - individual rights and freedoms, the constitution and consent by the Governed.

Pence has no qualms against forcing his religious beliefs on others through physical violence (law).

 

Oh really?

An ultrasound is some kind of invasive procedure.

But an abortion is not??

 

What part of the word "morning after pill" are you having trouble with.
Since when is having a rod stuffed up your vagina not invasive ? ... Oh .. sorry, you are not a woman ...

So having wand stuck up your anus against your will, for absolutely no reason other than someone's religious zealotry - is not invasive ?

Just because this is something that you would readily welcome - does not mean others feel the same.

 

Cutting through your oft-repeated rhetoric about how crazy Kim is, noting you still have not made it clear what has changed from the previous 20 years of same kind of rhetoric, you feel the U.S. has the perfect right to remove Kim's nuclear toys by force, if necessary. Rest assured, force will be necessary. You believe in American exceptionalism. That our country, and our country alone, is special. We have powers and rights that belong to no other country, and we can do whatever we wish. A megalomaniac back in 1930's had the same idea. He destroyed his country.

You also failed to mention the consequences of such force. Do you have ideas on how a shooting war will impact the 20 million South Koreans live under his guns? Do you think we can save the 28,500 American troops before they are wiped out by an artillery and rocket barrage that will happen the very first day Trump tries to take away Kim's nuclear weapons? Apparently, the consequences of what you are suggesting is of no consequence to you. What is 20 million lives, give or take a 100,000 or so.

And, according to you, all this destruction and death is based on flimsy premise. "It comes down to how much of a chance the world is willing to take that a person like Kim won't finally decide that we really do shake in our boots when he makes these threats, and that nobody will have guts enough to kick his ass if he carries them out."

That's it. In your world, we get ourselves involved in a catastrophic war based on a supposition. This is how Trump and his fans think. When Trump won the election back in November, I got scared, really scared. My apprehension has been justified, but that is beyond the realm of your understanding. You prefer a bloody war based on an "IF." After all, it is the macho thing to do and who cares if millions of Koreans die.

 

I don't like Pence, but I haven't seen that in him since he became veep. Are you from Indiana? Perhaps you know him better than I do. To me, Pence is just a Trump lapdog.

 

Trump is a "moderate" compared to Pence. Pence is a wolf in sheep's clothing ... hiding in the shadows waiting for opportunities to advance his messed up agenda.

Trump is a lapdog of the establishment. Flatter him a little and he will agree to anything because he does not know what is going on.

 

Lawmakers said they learned little during the session. "It was an OK briefing," said Sen. Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Not exactly a ringing endorsement from the Republican chairman.

Sen. Jeff Merkley, a Oregon Democrat, said on CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront" that they learned nothing new in terms of details on the administration's thinking on North Korea and any potential actions the US could take in response to another nuclear test. He said he believed the White House's decision to have the meeting was for "optics." "We learned nothing you couldn't read in the newspaper," Merkley said.

"It felt more like a dog and pony show to me than anything else," Duckworth (D-Ill) said. "I guess it has something to with this 100 days in office."

Still another ringing endorsement from a Republican. "I didn't hear anything new because I have been heavily briefed before," said Sen. John McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "It's a very serious situation, just as I had (thought) before I went there."

I consider Mattis and Tillerson the adults in the room. I could be wrong.

Whatever gave you the idea North Korea is about to invade South Korea? That is not going to happen. Do you know why? Should N.K. invade S.K. that would be the end of the Kim regime. Don't you think Kim knows that? Don't you think his generals know that? While a N.K. invasion would awfully convenient for Trump, ending all dialogue, that is not going to happen, and, if you know anything about the region, you know that.

You are awfully myopic about China. Of course, China has changed a great deal since the 1950's. However, contrary to Trump's glowing appraisal of President Xi and their brand new friendship based solely on one meeting at Mar-a-Lago, China is far stronger than she was in the '50's. Today, she is an economic powerhouse eating our lunch on trade. She has the third largest military in the world, and she is a daunting enemy of the U.S. in the South China Sea that threatens American interests in Taiwan, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Vietnam.

Contrary to Trump's gullibility when first meeting Xi, China is not our friend. Here are Trump's incredible words. "The relationship developed by President Xi and myself I think is outstanding. We look forward to being together many times in the future. And I believe lots of very potentially bad problems will be going away." Not only did Putin get his man in the White House, so did Xi.

These are not the actions of an American friend. "THE controversy in the South China Sea is heating up, with a new report from the US warning China has almost completed construction of three mysterious man-made islands.

The strategic bases will give China the ability to deploy combat aircraft and other military assets with terrifying efficiency across the disputed region.

The Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) analysed recent satellite photos and concluded that runways, aircraft hangers, radar sites and hardened surface-to-air missile shelters have either been finished or are nearing completion."

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/s...e/news-story/84aa8664ef1f147d704b8f1e78e62516

Contrary to Trump's dreamy views about China and her relationship with North Korea, China has done nothing to restrict North Korea for Trump's benefit. Indeed, all China has done is warn Trump to back off and don't start a war.

 

Whatever gave you the idea North Korea is about to invade South Korea? That is not going to happen. Do you know why? Should N.K. invade S.K. that would be the end of the Kim regime.[/QUOTE]

What makes you think that?

You yourself have REPEATEDLY claimed that North Korea is monstrously powerful.

You being dishonest one way or the other.

 

What makes you think that?

You yourself have REPEATEDLY claimed that North Korea is monstrously powerful.

You being dishonest one way or the other.[/QUOTE]

The U.S. is "monstrously powerful." That doesn't mean we are going to invade Canada someday.

Here is the issue in a nutshell.

We should do everything in our power, short of war, to prevent North Korea from developing an ICBM that can reach the U.S.

For 70 years we have lived with the prospect of two powerful enemies, Russia and China, having the power to incinerate American cities. We have believed that they will not do that because we will then incinerate their cities. It is MAD, or mutually assured destruction. All this is based on an assumption. The Russian and Chinese are no more suicidal than we are.

For 20 years North Korea has made threatening statements and gestures. She has threatened, among other things, to re-invade South Korea and to unite the Korean Peninsula under the DPRK flag. Today, nothing has changed. We know N.K. is not serious. How do we know that? We know North Koreans are no more suicidal than Russians, Chinese, or us.

All of sudden Trump comes along and he has decided that the North Koreans are suicidal. That sometime in 2020 North Korea will launch two or three ICBM'S that will take out San Francisco and L.A. In which case, we will then launch a few hundred of our 32,000 war heads and take out Pyongyang and every other North Korean city worth mentioning and N.K. will cease to exist.

Now Trump considers all that a very real possibility. So, if Kim doesn't kowtow to Trump's demands, Trump will engage in a limited war now, to prevent the huge tragedy that will occur in 2020. Better to have 20 to 50 million Koreans die now than 200 to 300 million in 2020. or so goes Trump's thinking. Oh, the 28,500 American troops stationed within 50 miles of the DMZ, that's what called collateral damage. Well worth the price to save the calamity that will occur in 2020.

Trump is a little sketchy on two important details. How does he know that the North Koreans will develop this suicidal urge? And, how is it he knows what will happen in 2020 if he doesn't take preventive measures today.

 

You're always just trolling and easy to foresee your purpose. you argue by excluding what doesn't fit the conclusion you make in advance.

i think your mindset would fit into this scenario:
You have a punk street gangster mouthing off, threatening to rape your wife and daughter. No problem you say; they don't really mean it, so you do nothing.
Then they start harassing your family, but top short of violating them- and so you do nothing, you know it's just punks showing off...
but to them, , It becomes a game, to see how far they can go- and how much you will grovel. They have already concluded you will back off, so it's just "fun"...
Then they actually do what they threatened, but peddle it off as being initiated by you wife and daughter. Not wanting to cause problems, you decide it
must be some kind of misunderstanding, and they wouldn't dare do it again,.. So they come by everyday and just have fun...
Soon they bring friends and make a party of it and your house. Of course now they are more powerful and threaten to burn your house and kill all your children, so you decide to not provoke them further. As I asked before- When would you draw the line?

Of course, now you wish to assign my opinion regarding the threat NK represents to the Trump administration, which was always your purpose. In a way, that is something Kim would do- invert everything to justify the game he's playing. However- I didn't vote for Trump, and I don't advise Trump. You are tilting at windmills so to speak. I suggest you write Trump, no doubt he will be interested in your opinion.

The difference between honorable men and weaklings is how much crap they will tolerate. In having standards they know are just, and the guts to stand up for them. Kim has made Kim- no one else is to blame. The question is when do you equate his acts with a level of threat that calls for action. I fully agree that politicians can act both too late and too early- or even not at all, as we have seen in some wars- all poor judgment. But the need to act is being created by Kim, not Trump. If Kim mistakes Trump's standards as being as spongy as yours, I suspect that will be a serious mistake.

 

The U.S. is "monstrously powerful." That doesn't mean we are going to invade Canada someday.

Here is the issue in a nutshell.

We should do everything in our power, short of war, to prevent North Korea from developing an ICBM that can reach the U.S.

For 70 years we have lived with the prospect of two powerful enemies, Russia and China, having the power to incinerate American cities. We have believed that they will not do that because we will then incinerate their cities. It is MAD, or mutually assured destruction. All this is based on an assumption. The Russian and Chinese are no more suicidal than we are.

For 20 years North Korea has made threatening statements and gestures. She has threatened, among other things, to re-invade South Korea and to unite the Korean Peninsula under the DPRK flag. Today, nothing has changed. We know N.K. is not serious. How do we know that? We know North Koreans are no more suicidal than Russians, Chinese, or us.

All of sudden Trump comes along and he has decided that the North Koreans are suicidal. That sometime in 2020 North Korea will launch two or three ICBM'S that will take out San Francisco and L.A. In which case, we will then launch a few hundred of our 32,000 war heads and take out Pyongyang and every other North Korean city worth mentioning and N.K. will cease to exist.

Now Trump considers all that a very real possibility. So, if Kim doesn't kowtow to Trump's demands, Trump will engage in a limited war now, to prevent the huge tragedy that will occur in 2020. Better to have 20 to 50 million Koreans die now than 200 to 300 million in 2020. or so goes Trump's thinking. Oh, the 28,500 American troops stationed within 50 miles of the DMZ, that's what called collateral damage. Well worth the price to save the calamity that will occur in 2020.

Trump is a little sketchy on two important details. How does he know that the North Koreans will develop this suicidal urge? And, how is it he knows what will happen in 2020 if he doesn't take preventive measures today.[/QUOTE]

Your're the kind of guy that would have Trump wait until the nukes were exploding, then call him a fool for not acting earlier. But if he acted earlier, you would call him a fool and a war monger because he acted too soon. There is no right about this either way- because it's really not about NK at all. It's a slam-turmp play, and you think you are making points by being ludicrous. N Korea is just the ball at the moment. If they didn't exist you would be making an identical play based on some other line of crap.

Your arguments are not worth reading- no value, no rational reasoning. I'm done with it.

 

the quality of the briefing doesn't dictate the propriety of the action

South Korea is the only region they can strike with any effectiveness whatsoever. They can barely get a missile past Japan.
The lynch-pin of North Korean threats have always revolved around "flattening Seoul" with their long-range artillery pieces.

lmao what does any of this have to do with whether North Korea is a valuable asset to them or not? A deranged North Korea armed with nuclear weapons as an ally damages the image they've been trying to cultivate of a moderate and pragmatic power.

 

I'm pretty sure that Sandy Shanks is a paid internet troll of some sort. Like the Russian paid ones that have flourished on this board before.

His posting style regarding North Korea is very similar to the Russian ones posting style

1) Blame all the ills and fears on the United States. Denounce the U.S. government as aggressive and militaristic

2) At the same time, praise the military capabilities of the enemies of the United States (often the Russians but sometimes the Chinese and now North Korea) and basically claim that the U.S. defeating them is an impossibility.

paid internet troll

 

You know so very little about what you are talking about. I continue my discussion with you only so others will learn. You are beyond help.

Threats issued by Pyongyang for decades is not attacking the U.S. or U.S. interests. That is the same kind of dismal logic the Trump administration is trying to convey to the American people with few results. The people aren't buying it. Threats are not attacks. Then again, Trump always has had trouble with syntax.

What exactly would a preemptive attack entail? Do you have even the slightest idea? Probably not. You just listen to the crap coming out of the Trump White House. They have a history of being short on specifics and facts. Here are some facts for you.

Attacking another nation based on the assumption it will attack us sometime in the distant future is violation of the spirit and intent of our Constitution. Such an attack violates our laws, treaties to which we are signatory, and international law.

BTW, the U.S. has a nasty history with preemptive wars. Another Republican President considered that Iraq endangered our national security. Iraq had done nothing to earn our wrath, but this President decided to teach Iraq a lesson much like our current Republican President wishes to teach North Korea a lesson. Because of the damage we did to Iraq's stability, fourteen years later and after 5,000 dead, 25,000 wounded, and $6 trillion we are still fighting in Iraq.

We should bear in mind, Bush attacked Iraq after her forces were ravaged by an eight-year war with Iran during the '80's, after she suffered a military defeat in the First Gulf War, and after eight years of her weapons being dismantled by weapons inspectors during the '90's. After Bush, Jr., attacked Iraq, Saddam's air force was too crippled to fly.

The North Korean armed forces have no such problems. As of 2016, with 5,889,000 paramilitary personnel, it is the largest paramilitary organization on Earth. This number represents 25% of the population. It's air force consists of 940 war planes, including 40 sophisticated MiG-29's that rival the F-15 and F-16 fighters. The Korean People's Strategic Rocket Forces is a major division of the KPA that controls the DPRK's nuclear and conventional strategic missiles. It is mainly equipped with surface-to-surface missiles of Soviet and Chinese design, as well as locally developed long-range missiles.

Put another way, unlike pathetic Syria and Afghanistan who could not strike back after Trump's bold attacks, it is not likely the DPRK will simply acquiesce to a cruise missile strike or the dropping of a MOAB. She will strike back, and 20 million South Koreans and 28,500 American troops are easily within range of her artillery and rockets.