The Futility of the Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence

Exhibit 1-- of what a waste of time it is to try to discuss anything with you. I have spoken constantly, to you, about this program (hosted by Luis Elizondo, fmr. Director of AATIP; with fmr. Undersec'y of Defense, Chris Mellon; on which appears an interview with Harry Reid; as well as a meeting with Italian officials, who confirmed their fighting with these craft; and in which they frequently confer w/ various experts, especially the long-time head of the group at Lockheed Martin that was in charge of top-secret government projects and developing the most cutting-edge technology). But none of that rings any bells for you, huh? Well here is my post, reviewing for you, our early conversation, at which point you had been lost as far as what our positions were. Amongst the quotes, you will see mention of Unidentified.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...l-intelligence.508305/page-15#post-1072962603

I suggested it to you in, I believe, my very first post. And I made a point, after your reply, of it being clear that you did not watch Unidentified. And now you claim to have not seen me post about it. So tell you what, why don't you stop replying then, until you come out of your coma?

Exhibit 2: this is only showing the great depth of your IGNORANCE on this subject; even the original Project Blue Book listed some sightings as unexplained-- as, by the way, are these most recently released, Navy videos. So your stating that, in your mind, a "reasonable explanation," has been given for all sightings, is damning evidence that you know nothing at all about this subject. It is, in equal parts, both laughable & pitiful that you could believe you had an understanding of this, without yourself doing any research, whatsoever. But I do not wish to waste my time, with someone who is unwilling to even hear, much less entertain or look into, any ideas other than his own.

Until then, you are IMO, unworthy of a response. But if you watch the early episodes of Unidentified, or do a basic level of research on the topic, you can get back to me, then. Here's a parting gift, from a lightweight article in "the week," on the Belgian UFO wave.

<SNIP>
Regardless, where things really start to get strange is in March 1990. At that point, there had been months of sporadic sightings throughout Belgium, including by an army colonel, André Amond, who claimed to have seen the lights while driving in his car with his wife in December. The Belgian military, needless to say, was well aware of the descriptions pouring in from across the country, and it had little in the way of answers.

Then-Chief of Operations of the Air Staff, General Wilfried De Brouwer — who offered his account to investigative reporter Leslie Kean for her 2010 book UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record — said that his initial belief was that the American military must have been testing some sort of experimental aircraft over his country. He went as far as to file inquiries with the U.S. Embassy in Brussels, prompting the Americans to create a memo, dryly titled "Belgium and the UFO Issue," which confirmed that "no USAF stealth aircrafts were operating in the... area during the periods in question."

The reports were credible enough, though, that Belgium's Air Force, federal aviation authorities, and police devised a plan to try to catch one of the unidentified intruders in action by preparing F-16s to quickly take off if a sighting was ever reported by both the police and a radar station at the same time. Sure enough, as De Brouwer recounts in UFOs, that night came on March 30, when "several policemen" and "two military radar stations" spotted an unknown object. "Once aloft, the [Belgian] pilots tried to intercept the alleged crafts, and at one point recorded targets on their radar with unusual behavior, such as jumping huge distances in seconds and accelerating beyond human capacity," De Brouwer writes.

But frustratingly, the pilots never managed to see the object they were pursuing. After analysis of the aircraft's readings, "the Air Force's decision was that the evidence was insufficient to prove that there were real crafts in the air on that occasion," De Brouwer reports. Still, throughout 1990, the Air Force was asked — and could never specifically account for — the sightings, which, all told, numbered in the thousands by the time they quietly started going away again in April.


Three decades later, explanations are still in short supply, although some scientists now consider the event to be an example of mass hysteria. Dunning, quoting UFO skeptic Philip Klass, writes, "Once news coverage leads the public to believe that UFOs may be in the vicinity, there are numerous natural and man-made objects which, especially when seen at night, can take on unusual characteristics in the minds of hopeful viewers. Their UFO reports in turn add to the mass excitement, which encourages still more observers to watch for UFOs."
<End Snip>

So, when all else fails, "scientists," call it mass hysteria, based on how well hysteria is known to show up, on radar.

 

If you had an "exhibit" you would post it.

Do you seriously believe the military would have said ANYTHING else??

Do you seriously think our DoD would have said, "Yes, that was an experimental craft."???

Why are you posting cases where the Air Force determined the "evidence" to be insufficient?

There is actual evidence that reports of UFOs encourages more reports of UFOs that are shown to be ridiculous.

One of the fundamental problems with the UFO thing is that the community of believers rarely if ever prunes the crap from their own list of events.

 

How silly is it to discuss 'something'? It's silly for anyone to believe that any 'credible' event would not be thoroughly investigated by the government. When the government 'does not know' what caused 'something' this DOES NOT mean they are aliens...it means THEY DO NOT KNOW. When the government does not 'discount the possibility of alien craft' this simply means they don't know and anything is possible...it does not mean there are aliens visiting Earth.

Some people believe in ghosts and swear they see them and communicate with them...does this mean ghosts are real?

Fact remains...and it seems this is difficult for you to grasp...but there is no scientific evidence of ET's visiting Earth! All that exists are anecdotal stories and pictures/videos that present NO conclusive evidence of ET's...

 

As you had already made two huge-- and inexcusable, of anyone who'd actually read my replies-- errors, by this point, I realized it was not worth reading further. I gave you multiple sources, who know better than either of us, and who say that our nation is NOT looking into this phenomenon, as seriously as we should. One of them was Harry Reid, who spent 30 years as a Senator, was the Majority Leader from 2007 to 2015, and served on the Select Committee on Intelligence. Another was an Undersecretary of Defense, for Intelligence. Another ran a program that even was looking into some of these events, but was not getting the required support from the higher-ups, in the military, and from our elected officials. So your merely saying, "It's silly for anyone to believe that any 'credible' event would not be thoroughly investigated by the government," could not possibly be a more meaningless, or wrong, assertion.

The next part-- what is the truth about these sightings-- is the part that, obviously, can only be speculated about (because, as far as the public is aware, it has not be fully investigated). I have been very clear, in saying that extra-terrestrials only seems, to me, the most reasonable guess. If you have a different guess, I would think that you would present your rationale for that speculation (which you have not done). Instead, all you've done is try to deny that my own supposition is a credible one, but without any factual basis-- for, as you noted, "THEY DO NOT KNOW (what it is);" how, then you would KNOW what it is not, is beyond reason.

You have not bothered, also, to look at any of the evidence, to which I tried to point you. So, if you're not willing to learn any more about a subject, which you have clearly not investigated, yourself, and you are not going to enjoin the discussion with your own appraisal of the likeliest candidates, to explain those hardest to explain sightings, I can only wonder as to what is propelling you to contribute your objections to this thread, at all.

 

My rationale for not believing the Navy tapes are evidence of aliens is that they have been debunked.

Are you OK with that?

 

Only if you provide proof of your assertion, which I have previously asked you for, but which you have yet to deliver. For someone to keep on making the same claim, while ignoring queries about their source, FYI, is a good reason to make one highly skeptical of said claim.

 

You seem to choose what you 'wish' to believe. You can believe there are aliens visiting Earth but you can't believe the government is thoroughly investigating them?

Who cares about 'reasonable guesses'? I care about scientific evidence and it's that simple. You are fine with anecdotal information and guessing and I am not. There is NO reason to guess! What's wrong with waiting for scientific evidence?

Be patient...they will eventually come...

 

I'm not going to try to prove to you that all the UFO claims that have been made have perfectly reasonable Earthly explanations.

 

OK, what the heck - I looked up one of the debunkings of Navy tapes.



But, here's the thing about this.

If you actually cared about this topic, you would have looked this stuff up yourself. And, having knowledge of what's going on here, you would not consider these tapes to be evidence.

You may want to still accuse the military of not investigating enough, but I'd suggest that is pretty weird given that this realm of flying objects is CENTRAL to our defense strategy - which is their purpose of existence

 

The problem with "Unidentified?" and much of the rest of the press is that they LOSE when the answer is boring. Who would watch "Unidentified?" if the answer is "nope, no aliens here!"

So, even when there is NO CHANCE that an event involves aliens, they are right there making sure the door doesn't get closed.

The case of the "go fast" video is a perfect example of this.

Please remember that "Unidentified?" is a TV show oriented to attracting people who WANT TO BELIEVE.

 

I "choose," to believe the evidence supporting these propositions, though you misstate the 2nd, by leaving out a lot. I did not say the government is not investigating this at all, but that it is not giving it anywhere near the serious consideration it deserves. If you misrepresent what I have said, clearly & repeatedly to you, one more time, it will be evidence to me that you have cognitive difficulties that make it pointless to attempt to carry on a conversation with you.

This is a ridiculous concept, IMO, to not form any opinion about something, until it is scientifically proven. So in the meantime, what are you supposed to think? Just pretend that it's not happening? Or look at it as a question mark that allows for no judgement on your part? Luckily, our ancestors didn't take that tack with the first leopards, hyena, lions, hippos, cobras, etc., they came across.

There is a good deal of data, at this point, for a phenomenon that has been active since World War 2 (and which there is evidence has gone on for much longer). To take an attitude of willful ignorance is, well, being willfully ignorant. Given all the information we have, the chances seem very strong that we are being visited by alien craft. Just because it has not yet been absolutely proven, is no reason to ignore it. As I asked the other person, on your team ignorance, would it have been practical for people, until it could actually be proven that our sun, ''existed," and known what it was-- which I think there is still some debate over-- to have no opinion, on that yellow and orange thing that moves across our sky, every day?
There is some value, in using common sense.

 

Do you seriously believe the DoD is EVER going to keep you informed of exactly how thoroughly they investigate anomalies? Do you believe they SHOULD do that? Because, I certainly do not.

I just do NOT understand your thinking on that.

Our distant ancestors were well aware of the dangers facing them. Those threats were some concoction of imagination.

As for what you should assume before there is investigation is that there have been HUGE numbers of claims that have NEVER been found to be of alien origin and that explanations will come about at some time.

You don't have any reason to jump to conclusions. You aren't being threatened by the "go fast" video, regardless of whether you are aware of the explanation of that video.

There just is not "a good deal" of evidence of aliens.

Remember that the Navy tapes are NOT evidence.

We can't afford to believe everything anyone claims.

Nobody is proposing that we should ignore anything.

And, Aristarchus found the distance to the sun in about 3000 BC. So I really have NO idea what the heck you are proposing with your comments about the sun.

 

That wasn't your claim (you should let your conversants know, if Alzheimer's is setting in). The recent Navy videos had come up, in our conversation. You claimed that at least one had been proven to have been just a weather balloon. That is the claim which I asked for you to cite a source. As expected, it seems to have been just more disingenuous B.S.

So, it should be clear as to why I should have felt that you were just wasting my time, with bogus claims. But I am just now finding that you finally did show your evidence. And, you know what, I accept it, for that sighting. I will note, importantly, that the person in the video, which you also accept as fact, ends by asking if his explanation is proof that it is just a weather balloon, and he says NO, but it's strong EVIDENCE. That has been my position, in case you have forgotten, that you have been arguing against this whole time, that evidence can be used to form an opinion, even if it is less than definitive proof of something.

So, I give you that one video. However, my belief was in no way contingent upon that video. All 3 of them, in fact, seemed atypical of the more credible sightings.

 

EPIPHANY PLUS


Let THEM Find "us".



Then be afraid.
Be very afraid.


Moi

​

 

I know that most claims turn out to be nothing otherworldly. That does not make the inexplicable ones any less real. It's like if your doctor told you that you probably only had indigestion, or some mundane ailment, but in a tiny percentage of patients, your symptom could be a sign of cancer. But since it's usually not cancer, he didn't think you should bother with a blood test, to check.

Which only showed where it was, not WHAT it was. We do know where sightings occur. Are you now supporting the view that this is enough to say they are real, even without knowing exactly what they're made of? You understand how analogies work, don't you?

 

I'm not objecting to anything? You can't seem to understand I have MY position and you're not going to change it with your 'guesses' and 'assumptions' and 'anecdotal' tales.

You, we...only know what we know...and NO MORE. Until we know more about UFO sightings, actually have some hard evidence in our possession, actually have consensus from the scientific community, it's a big nothing-burger to me! And when we get beyond what we actually know, it serves no purpose to me to start guessing, to get all righteous about what each person 'thinks'. If you think ET's are visiting Earth...then prove it...

 

Please take your ET religion and try it on others. I have no further interest in debating nonsense. And use some logic; discovering ET's visiting Earth or on another planet, would be the single grandest news story and scientific discovery...when it ACTUALLY happens, then and only then will we know. Until then, all you have are your conspiracy theories...

 

Anyone posting Mick West debunking videos hasn't done much research into things for themselves. I wouldn't waste my time trying to convince someone who has no intention of ever accepting the reality that these things are real and not created by humans.

Anyone accepting Mick West's explanations of the navy videos is calling the military personnel who saw these things with their own eyes liars.

 

No, the pilots reported what they saw - their full understanding of the events.

And, the Navy tapes have been shown to be real and of real objects.

For example, the "go fast" video release has been shown to be of a weather balloon. The parallax taking place was seriously deceptive to the pilot - you can't blame the pilot for thinking the object was moving fast.

And, the full necessary information is shown on the screen right there in the video of the pilot's instruments.

 

What the debunking shows is that the object is NOT moving fast and is NOT otherwise behaving in the way that the pilot thought.

It shows there is a perfectly good explanation for the event.

The "go fast" Navy tape does NOT show something that is even slightly out of the ordinary.

Yet YOU want to declare that it's aliens!!!

 

The pilots also saw these things with their naked eyes.

The pilots and other people in the military who have seen these things have way more information than Mick West has to debunk.

Ive seen all the debunkings, and they are effective at debunking the piece of information available to the public, but after watching interviews with the pilots, I realize that nothing meaningful has been debunked.

 

ALL the information was TOTALLY available to determine that the Navy pilot reporting "go fast" was just plain wrong.

It is right there in the video. All one has to do is read the pilot's instruments and know a bit of simple trig - as Mick West and many others have pointed out.

Sorry - that IS the end of "go fast".

 

It seems one of us is a little mixed up. It should go without saying, that the truth is not yet known, so no one can speak definitively on this topic. Didn't I say as much, describing my thoughts as, my best "guess?" I don't believe it was I, who started replying to your posts, to say that your views were invalid. I don't expect to change your opinion; I was only defending my own, against your seeming argument against it. Did I misinterpret your intent? Here is your first post to me, in response to something I said to a different poster.

So, again, I don't think I ever portrayed my opinion as anything other than just that: what seemed the most likely explanation, to me. So your emphasizing this, did come off as an attempt to belittle my ideas.

Then, ironically, after telling me that I can't know anything about UFOs, for sure, you say of the government, about UFOs, "every anomaly anywhere near the US, all of which would be considered potential national security issues until proven otherwise, are and will be thoroughly investigated by the US government... It is guaranteed 'they' are on it..." Quick question: do you work for a government agency, investigating this phenomenon? If not, how can you guarantee anything? Isn't this just your assumption? And again, Harry Reid (former Senate Majority Leader) contradicts your opinion. So thanks, anyway.

Your antipathy to my opinion comes across more strongly, IMO, in your next post:

See that part I emboldened, in your post? Well that's what I will respond to, when you assert it to me, because I disagree with it (and this is a debate forum). So that is how I have interpreted our interaction. You joined in, with Will Readmore, to try to denigrate my coming to a "working conclusion," from the vast amount of "evidence"-- and I use this word in its basic sense, as opposed to as a synonym for, "proof"-- rather than pretending that there's, "nothing to see," in that realm, because that is what the government would prefer our opinion be.

You are certainly entitled to continue on that tack, if you wish. And if I am also entitled to have my own opinion, even if it differs from yours, because, "You, we...only know what we know...and NO MORE," then I'm not sure what exactly was your intent by your initiating your conversation with me, if it wasn't to change my mind (which you now claim has been my purpose, towards you).

I will end with the remainder of this current post of yours. At first you are talking about your own way of thinking about the situation, that you see no point in speculating, about something that has been reported continually, in large numbers, since WW2. Fine for you. But then you add something that strikes me as no longer talking about yourself, when you say, "it serves no purpose...to get all righteous about what each person thinks." So the person who's been lecturing me on waiting for science, and the government, to tell me what to believe about UFOs, is now also accusing ME, of being righteous, over what each person thinks. When all I've done is give my opinion, to someone who challenged my opinion.

Go suck an egg.

As should already be understood, I can no more, "prove," ETs, using online resources, than you can disprove them...you are the one who is sounding RIGHTEOUS about the way he thinks, if you ask me.

 

And I, no interest in enduring more feckless attempts at reasoning by a wind bag who ludicrously thinks he is bright enough to have an authoritative opinion on anything. (And who constantly misrepresents/ misunderstands my easily graspable remarks; to wit: calling my opinion a, "religion" is wholely unfounded & indefensible).

 

The emboldened, ending line of your post is a complete fiction. Quote my "declaring it aliens."

Everything else in your post is elementary information, to anyone who has seen the video you posted. Which is why I said I accept that explanation; and why it was utterly unnecessary to post any of it, here.