The Hoax crowd versus the risk of heart damage from Covid-19

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Sep 21, 2020.

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  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, I won't be posting links to studies because I've done it already, extensively. I just want to have a conversation with you guys who think this virus is either a hoax or not a big deal, just a little flu, or a political tool by opponents of the current administration.

    I'd like to keep it apolitical, and just think of people's personal health, life expectancy, and quality of life.

    So, from the MEDICAL standpoint (forget politics, forget the mask controversy, forget the economy, just think of it from the PERSONAL HEALTH standpoint) there is growing evidence that this virus has a special predilection for the muscle fibers of the heart, and has been causing severe (but silent, hidden) heart damage in up to 20% of people who catch it, regardless of age, underlying conditions, or mild versus severe Covid-19 illness.

    It won't be the first nor the last time a new virus ends up causing severe health consequences down the road (look up the Epstein-Barr virus).

    I've posted four studies pointing to this and statements by literally a dozen leading cardiologists and cardiology societies... but again, I'm not interested in studies, for this thread. Believe me, it is real, and you can look it up if you want, or find the links in my posting history.

    I don't know if the 20% number will hold. Maybe not as many. A German study that triggered awareness of this problem talked of 78% (it's probably not as many; I don't know why this German sample of 100 patients found so many with the heart lesion; I hope it's not that many). Others have mentioned 20% so let's stick with that. Or maybe not even, maybe it is 10% or less, I don't know. It's something that still needs to be studied. But what I'm getting at is, what if?

    So, let's suppose for a moment that this is what it is. 20%, that is, one in five people catching this virus, even though as of now they are fine and don't even know that they have the problem, in a few years down the road will run into heart failure.

    So imagine that it happens to you. You're progressively more and more short of breath, your quality of life is shut as you can't do anything you used to do without having trouble breathing, your feet is swollen, then your primary care provider sends you to see a cardiologist, and you have this conversation:

    "So how bad is it, doctor?"
    "Sorry but it is pretty bad. You got progressive heart failure, caused by myocarditis, caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus you caught in 2020."
    "Oh. So that virus wasn't a hoax, wasn't a little flu, after all?"
    "Hm, no, it wasn't. That was a rather dangerous virus, especially for the heart; we've been seeing this problem in Covid-19 survivors, over and over."
    "Darn, and I didn't believe in it, at the time. So what will happen?"
    "Well, again, sorry, but your damaged heart muscle won't regenerate. The heart muscle doesn't do that. So short of a heart transplant which is not easy to get, we're looking at full heart failure."
    "Is this fatal, doctor?"
    "Sorry, but yes, it is."
    "What am I looking at? How long do I have to live if I don't get a heart transplant"
    "Sorry again, but no longer than one year."

    OK, folks. Do you actually want to have a conversation like this one with your doctor a few years down the road?

    Just on the "what if" alone (viruses are unpredictable and often have bad long-term consequences that are not apparent at first), I'd say, be careful. Be safe. Be prudent. Forget politics, this is about YOUR health, YOUR future, YOUR quality of life, YOUR life expectancy.

    No political strife is worth the price you'll have to pay if you are one of the 1-in-5 people who will get severe heart damage from this virus. If it happens to you, the farthest thing in your mind will be the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, Trump, Biden, or whoever else.

    You'll be rather thinking of your spouse, your children, your loved ones, and the impact on them of your possibly curtailed life span.

    So, as a healthcare professional with 40 years of experience, I'm begging you, be careful. Keep your distance from people. Don't go out unnecessarily. Wear a good mask, preferably at least a high grade surgical mask (ASTM level 3) or a NIOSH-certified N95 respirator. Do this for a few more months until we hopefully get a vaccine.

    This year's politics, this year's presidential race, are not worth your health and your life expectancy.

    What do you have to lose, if you're prudent? It's not a macho contest. It's not a political statement. It's YOUR health. Do something about it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  2. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    You failed right there in putting "Hoax Crowd Versus..." in your thread title. In my state, people with existing respiratory issues are exempt from wearing a mask when they are at higher risk of dying if they get it. We had this conversation at lunch today at work--the two groups that are disproportionately impacted--blacks and old people--are the two groups you seldom see wear a mask in part because a great many of them are exempt from having to.
     
  3. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nah, I'm not the one failing this. Just today I placed on Ignore a conspiracy theorist here calling it a hoax.

    And these medical exemptions are grossly exaggerated, by the way. Some of these people convince their primary care doctors to write for an exemption when masks rarely have any impact on gas exchange even for people with COPD, etc. If you measure Pulse Ox saturation even for people with pulmonary conditions, their readings tend to remain the same with or without a mask, at least if you're talking cloth masks or surgical masks (might be different for N95s). Most of the people who seek these exemptions are suffering from a psychological issue, claustrophobia/panic attacks and they feel they can't breathe, when there is no biological substract to it. Most, not all. But most.
     
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  4. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I find it frustrating and incredibly sad that the virus has become a political football. That we discuss it in terms of blue and red state responses. But it seems that we can't discuss anything without it becoming 'us versus them'. (And for the record, I don't think that calling out the 'hoax crowd' is necessarily a political thing...)

    Because I'm close to the danger zone with respect to age and this virus I take it very seriously. And now, knowing the potentially life limiting after effects, I'm even more determined to keep myself safe from it.
     
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  5. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Proclaiming these people are mental does not make it so. Even if it is psychological, that is largely a protected group as well under the ADA as not all disabilities are physical.
     
  6. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm just saying, masks are not that detrimental... they are mostly harmless... but some people have problems with them just like some people can't get a CT scan because they feel claustrophobic inside the machine. It doesn't mean that CT scans are detrimental (beyond the fact that they use X-rays).

    We are talking about a minority of people... you make it sound like hundreds of thousands of African-Americans are walking around maskless due to medical exemptions... you have a fertile imagination.
     

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