The "horrors" of Socialism Explained

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  2. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member

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    I will never admit to being a socialist.

    We need to cut entitlements by 50% now. And for those loons who say we need to cut the military because "it's the largest part of the budget", they're wrong. Percentage of the federal budget:

    1) Social Security 23%
    2) Medicare 18%
    3) Defense 15%
    4) Unemployment/Labor/Housing 11%
    5) Medicaid 10%
    6) miscellaneous 23% (education, interest on debt, veterans benefits, etc)

    The military and homeland security share of the budget is just 15%. And yes, it also needs to be cut.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  3. OldGuy?wise

    OldGuy?wise Active Member Past Donor

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    I think that the underlying problem here is GREED.

    Pure Capitalism says that greed is good. Greed energizes the individual to create, achieve and produce which benefits all of society.

    Pure Socialism says that greed is bad. Greed causes exploitation and ever increasing disparity between wealth and poverty. Greed leads to increased crime.

    Greed is always present in any form of government. Whether it is a democracy, dictatorship, socialist or communist, the elite (government, military, or business) have managed to stay or become wealthy. No country has ever controlled the greed and lust for power of their leaders (government and business).

    If we have a problem, let's identify and evaluate it. The solution of each problem might be "socialist" or it might be "capitalist", but the solution will require true facts, honesty, rational thought, and an awareness of the force of greed.
     
  4. OldGuy?wise

    OldGuy?wise Active Member Past Donor

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    Social Security is not part of the Federal budget. It is paid for by payroll tax which is separate from all other taxes. I understand the Federal government has "stolen" from the Social Security fund in the past to pay for other stuff. I have paid into the social security fund for 50 years and don't care for someone saying that my investment should be taken from me.

    Medicare is also supported by a payroll tax, but I am not sure just how separate it is from the Federal budget. One out four persons over the age of 65 will declare bankruptcy due to severe medical expenses. Maybe if we cut medicare we can increase that to one out of three.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    And they can do that best by leaving people the hell alone. The current meme of modern governments every where is if it works tax it if it still works regulate it. If it still works repeat one and two till it no longer works and then subsidize it. Government exist to wield power. When it wields too much power it invariably becomes destructive too little and the country destroys itself. Good government exists somewhere between these extremes but much closer to the bottom than it is right now.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wasn't talking about you in particular but, you are seriously deluded if you think Red Establishment are not massive lovers of wealth redistribution - as evidenced by their spending habits when in power.

    Total Military Spending - which now tops 1 Trillion - is way more than 15% of the Federal Budget (and this does not include the interest on the debt portion from Military Spending).

    Regardless - The total military spend is not the only form of wealth redistribution that Republicans in general favor. Do you not like roads, infrastructure, police. prisons. Did Red Establishment not support the Drug war (in particular the war on Pot), three strikes legislation and so on.

    You are deluding yourself if you think these things are not funded by wealth redistribution. You include things on your list that are either paid for - or partially paid for by the worker - as opposed to the Feds = Social Security and Unemployment insurance.

    Do Republicans not use Unemployment insurance and SS ? Was it not Republican Administrations who were stealing annual interest from the SS fund and putting into general revenue ?

    The idea that Red Establishment are not big fans of wealth redistribution is a preposterous falsehood on steroids.
     
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  7. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That would be your biased personal opinion. It's just as valid as mine.

    Oh that's childish.

    Huh?... When a government wields too much power it "invariably becomes destructive too little"? And then the country destroys itself? You mean if government doesn't destroy a country by not being destructive enough, the country destroys itself?
    huh?
     
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Childish or not it is true. There is a hell of a lot of space between anarchy and too much government.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The two brain cells?
     
  10. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Preferring collectivism over individualism, and then claiming it benefits individuals better than individualism is the height or moronic.
     
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  11. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dictatorial nations refers to how its governed, not its economic system. It seems there may be more confusion than realized here.

    N Korea is a fascist dictatorial nation utilizing communism as its economic system. Telling people who desire the marxists agenda to go to N Korea, Isnt off.
     
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  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Between too much government and too little
     
  13. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Nah! Failing to see it is.
     
  14. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member

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    You can say SS and Medicare are not in the federal budget. My numbers are simply the percentage of what the Feds pay out.
     
  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Social Security is not 23% of the budget. The government spins the facts on it. The truth is, AS YOU KNOW, that S.S. is paid for. The Trust Fund holds the excess value paid in via payroll taxes. Those dollars are invested in Treasury Securities. They were invested in the usual way. SS dollars purchased Treasuries from the government. That 23% figure says those Treasuries and the investment in them doesn't count. They HAVE TO say that, because they can't dare publish the truth which is that the government SPENT the invested money on other things and now they have to pay back what they OWE.

    So, saying SS is 23% of the budget is like saying that the savings bonds you hold are worthless and the government has to support you.

    SHOULD INVESTMENTS BE REDEEMABLE OR NOT?
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hilarious!

    Funniest response yet!
     
  17. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good point!

    Well said! I could not agree more! Everybody wants to be an ideologue. All ideologies have something to contribute/ But none can be blindly accepted and expected to solve all our problems.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of course there isn't. There is no comparison to the size of our infrastructure, military, military threats, bureaucracy, population, paranoid attitude toward foreigners, education, welfare demands from big corporations, ..

    Yeah... as the poor did. They wanted to make everybody equal. Eliminate "privileges" of the rich. Why did they want to punish the rich? Why only the rich? Why didn't those "free-loaders" pay their share for their common "defence" (sic).

    Sounds too close to "to each according to their needs, from each according to their means.... "

    See? I can blurt as many absurd right-wing talking points as any ignorant right-winger can....
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  19. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member

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    For this thread, I'm not concerned about how SS is financed. You may be correct in everything you said. I'm just saying 23 cents of every dollar that the federal government spends is for SS.

    That's for a recent year. In 2019 it may be slightly more or less.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    On that post, I wasn't talking about economic systems. I was taking about how its governed.
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Let's put it this way even though you just admitted you don't understand this or know what you're talking about, but let's put it this way: S.S. is not costing the taxpayer net 23¢ on the dollar. It's cost the taxpayer only for the interest earned on the SS Treasuries.
     
  22. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member

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    Oh. So the government isn't paying for SS.

    Phew. What a relief.
     
  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    My case was made about 5 posts ago. Now I'm going along with yours which started when you went off track with this nonsense about "taxes" My point being that our Constitution was based on the pursuit of socialist values: common defense, general welfare, justice and liberty for all of us and our posterity... Even before we had so much as a hint of where the money to cover all of this would come from. Taxes or no taxes....
     
  24. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That's right. The taxpayers' money was exchanged for an investment and the government spent that money on whatever. Now the government has to pay back the money they spent on whatever. It's rightfully S.S. money already and always was.
     
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Venezuela and Nazi Germany we're both democratic socialism.

    Slimming and adjectives in front of socialism doesn't make it any less socialism. biet Marxist socialism and Democratic socialism spare tire socialism potato airplanes socialism.

    Democracy is a dictatorship.
     

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