The "horrors" of Socialism Explained

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) I was making mock of the fact that those most vocally Socialist, are the very last people prepared to dispense with individuality.

    2) I recall seeing a suggestion of wealth - happy to stand corrected.

    3) Equality of opportunity has nothing to do with liberty. It's a function of Socialism, and therefore requires conformity to support. It also has little to do with justice in the emotional sense (ie, 'fairness'). Justice in the Socialist sense is purely about the most survival for the most people. It's as 'justice minded' as a wolf pack.
     
  2. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They aren't republics. LOL. Simply because they have that in their name doesn't mean they are.

    Republics are governed by officials nominated or elected, not by what the NK's perceive to be a deity.
     
  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No, I'd prefer a constitutional republic. You can prefer dictatorships if you want. I just don't

    I agree the argument you made up is ridiculous
     
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Good grief an across the board tax cut will always benefit those who pay the highest percent of the taxes. You can't have everybody working for the government, that is socialism. Right now one in five people work for state, federal, county, and local governments, that is not sustainable. So then Washington and Jefferson violated the constitution? Along with virtually every other president prior to 1960? And what it meant in old English, doesn't matter a damn. English is not Latin. The meanings of words change over time.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    I will just about guarantee you that if the phrase "People's Democratic Republic of" appears before the name of a country that said country is neither a Democracy or a republic and that the people have no say in how that country conducts it affair.
     
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why would they dispense with individuality? Individuality is very much cherished by Democratic Socialists.

    Nonsense! You are confusing following an ideology with being an ideologue. This is so discombobulated that what you describe can actually be applied to absolutely anything to which complete adherence is required. So when Nordquist demands that you adhere to "no taxes", and if you don't "you are not a true conservative"..... he's not expressing a conservative ideology. He's being an ideologue. Or when Anne Coulter requires you to adhere to "no immigrants" or you're labeled a RINO,. Or when the NRA demands that you defend (their interpretation of) "the 2nd Amendment", or you're not "a true Constitutionalist" They all require "conformity". But none of them are ideologies. They are ideologues.

    You are not describing Socialism. Nor any ideology. An ideology is a guide. An ideology does not require support under all circumstances. No ideology based on Democracy does. It's only when an ideology is pushed by and ideologue that "conformity" starts becoming a requirement. And then liberty, justice and Democracy need to be pushed to the back seat.

    You, as many people, have been listening to too many ideologues all your life. And now cannot telll the difference.

    J
    [/QUOTE]
    That is beyond nonsense. illustrated by the fact that you give absolutely no arguments to support it. Providing no arguments is what many people do when they want to blurt out nonsense, but are aware that elaborating would only underling how absurd their comments are

    Fact is that you are ill-prepared to tell me what I believe. And that is definitely not it.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Exactly my point. Since Socialism/Communism (they're the same thing, only the pretender pretends otherwise) does not tolerate individuality well, or even at all in some circumstances. Individuality is the prize of Capitalism, not Socialism.

    2) Yes, I am describing Socialism. And there is NOTHING ideological about it, it's a purely practical/economic arrangement based on shared manpower and shared resources. It has nothing to do with politics, religion, or any other 'emotional' drivers of the kind needed to qualify as an ideology.

    3) Every ideologue I know is either religious, or a Leftist Progressives. I have a slight preference for the former.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Common Purse is beneficial to the most people, when fully agreed upon and participated in. It does not cater to feelings, social justice, equality, individuality, or any other First World vanities. It does nothing but keep the most number fed, for most of the time. Just like the wolf pack. In order to do that, many of those First World vanities must be sacrificed (obviously, since they are luxuries purchased by Capitalism).
    Just like the wolf pack.
     
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  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of course they're Republics!

    KJU was nominated and elected. He was not elected by the people, which means it's not a Democracy. But it is definitely a Republic. A Republic simply means that it's not a Monarchy.

    Making up your own language does not make you look very smart.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    What the hell does that have to do with what you wrote before? Venezuela is a Constitutional Republic.. You prefer that to a Democratic Republic? That's up to you. I don't.

    You make absolutely no sense. And it's so obvious you don't know what you're talking about. As proven by the fact that you go from one thing to another with zero consistency.

    Look. Political Sciences 101: "Republic" means that it's not a Monarchy. Democracy means that it's not a Dictatorship. "Constitutional Republic" simply means that it's a Republic that has a Constitution (even if that Constitution makes a dictatorship legal) Anything else you have in your head you got from Rush or Hannity..... or some similar uneducated ignorant right-wing nut! Did these guys even finish High School? I doubt it!
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  11. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    re·pub·lic
    /rəˈpəblik/
    noun
    noun: republic; plural noun: republics
    1. a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

    By no means is North Korea a republic, because supreme power is NOT held by the people and their elected representatives. I agree that making up your own language does not make one look smart. Please refrain from doing so.
     
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  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which would be a great comeback if I had said anything even remotely resembling that they should.

    I know how debates work on the right. When they are left without arguments in the real debate, they just make up something they can respond to, so at least they look as if they were making a point.

    The ignorance expressed in this phrase is overwhelming. Maybe you should have stuck with the "make-up arguments for my opponent" rule that you used above. It might have left you looking just a tad better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  13. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    that democracy is a dictatorship? Everything.
     
  14. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought you were done?

    Yup... your like a little kid.
     
  15. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol. Apparently another person that is intellectually inferior to Golem.

    Are you capable of defending your perspectives without assuming everybody who disagrees must be dumber than you? Narcissist much?
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wrong! Ok. You should have started with that. It would have spared me from believing that you had even a notion of what you were talking about. Now I know that I would have to go down to the most basic levels to even start a discussion on this matter with you. Thinking back, I should have guessed by some of the nonsense you wrote.

    I don't think I can go that far back. It's like explaining Political Sciences to a First Grader.

    Don't know about emotional drivers or religion. But it has quite a bit to do with politics. "Nothing ideological'? Sounds like you don't know what the word "ideological" means. But, then again, you already left it clear above that you don't know what socialism means, so.... that clarifies this comment.

    Which demonstrates that you are unable to identify ideologues and are, therefore, an easy target for them
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  17. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you OK? Did you eat, drink, smoke, inject or otherwise ingest some unknown substance in the past few hours? Please do not induce vomiting until you have consulted a properly trained medical professional.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    If you think Socialism has anything at all to do with 'equality and justice', or even politics, you've been sold a crock of pandering nonsense, designed to please the egos of virtue signallers and cafe philosophers.

    It is a MODE OF ECONOMICS/LABOUR DIVISION/DISTRIBUTION. No different to any other method of managing the household and budget, as it were. It's a TOOL, for the most efficient use of labour and resources, to benefit the most people. It says nothing to or about politics.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I never expect that the Cafe Socialist will like or appreciate the apparently brutal realities of Socialism.
     
  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    First of all, Supreme power, according to the constitution of NK, is held by the SPA (Supreme People's Assembly) which are elected representatives of the people. They appoint the President KJU. Who is also President of the SPA. This is is not a very Democratic process, because it's not a Democracy. But it is a Republic. This is all carried out in public, therefore it is "res-publica" (Re-public)

    Second: as I said: it's a Republic, because it's not a Monarchy.

    But most importantly.....

    Appeal to Definition

    (also known as: appeal to the dictionary, victory by definition)

    Description: Using a dictionary’s limited definition of a term as evidence that term cannot have another meaning, expanded meaning, or even conflicting meaning. This is a fallacy because dictionaries don’t reason; they simply are a reflection of an abbreviated version of the current accepted usage of a term, as determined by argumentation and eventual acceptance. In short, dictionaries tell you what a word meant, according to the authors, at the time of its writing, not what it meant before that time, after, or what it should mean.

    Dictionary meanings are usually concise, and lack the depth found in an encyclopedia; therefore, terms found in dictionaries are often incomplete when it comes to helping people to gain a full understanding of the term


    https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/27/Appeal-to-Definition
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I see. Since democracy is the opposite of a dictatorship, then what you said before is the opposite of what you said now.

    I get it....
     
  22. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    You shouldn't confuse ignorance with being intellectually inferior. Ignorance is solvable. But you need to put your mind to it.
     
  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Use of labor and resources by whom? That is laughable. Never mind whether Socialism has or doesn't have to do with the others. But that it has nothing to do with politics. ? Do you know what the word "politics" means? Did you even bother to look it up? I bet you didn't....
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You still don't get it. Once again:

    Socialism is a TOOL. Just like any other economic model. A tool used by groups of humans (ie, families, religious groups, businesses, agricultural cooperatives, political parties, etc). Right wingers are just as likely to use the tool as are Left wingers.

    I think your failure to grasp this is a result of needing clear labels, and probably your lack of awareness of what Socialism really is. You've probably been living it most of your life without even realising it. Every member of a stable and functioning multi-generational family living together, is practising Socialism. Every member of a small community which relies on shared resources, is practising Socialism. Etc Etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I still don't know what you're talking about. But even it it's a tool, it's a tool for politics.

    Funny thing about this "tool" thing, is that you don't even bother to explain why it's a tool. What does the tool do? What do you use the "tool" for?

    I mean, in some metaphorical way, that could be justified, I guess. But you make no attempt to explain it....

    Sure. Members of any society practice a certain form of socialism. But why is that a "tool". And why would socialism have nothing to do with politics? Given that governments govern over societies. And for the socialism in that society (in any of those societies) to be "democratic" justice and liberty is required.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019

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