The Kochs are abandoning the GOP's Crackpot Xenophobes

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, May 17, 2018.

  1. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is not wrong to oppose entry of illegals with ties to MS-13. It is patriotic.
     
  2. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If 11 million people commit a crime, how many should we prosecute?

    Normally I have no use for your opinion, but of course you just asked a question. Serious? I don't know. Thought I'd risk sharing a solution that I approve of and find out.

    Unfortunately we have 11 million illegals pretty deeply embedded in the USA- because we failed to enforce the laws in the past, both controlling illegal entry and removing illegals once here. In fact it would be very hard to do now what we failed to do at the time these people came in, an attempt at total deportation would be a logistical and social nightmare.

    So- what if? We set up a plan as follows:

    First, no new illegal immigration. It's a crime- misdemeanor first offense, felony second offense. Violate the border once this plan is law and lose any right to obtain citizenship or enter the US in the future.

    Immigrants here illegally need to come forward and register- make us aware of who they are, where they are, children and when they arrived, etc.
    In return, they are given the opportunity to gain citizenship, with some conditions, including:
    Registration is open for 1 year. The program is a one-time offer- those who do not register lose the opportunity permanently.
    If the person meets the qualifications, they can begin the path to citizenship immediately in the normal way.
    To qualify- the applicant must have a record clear of felony crime, drug abuse, domestic abuse and other criminal conduct that is detrimental to society.
    Those not qualified or who fail to register get deported.

    I think a lot of people who feel strongly about illegal immigrants would accept such a compromise plan. It acknowledges that our government has allowed the problem to grow, it offers a generous solution for those who want citizenship, it removes those who are part of criminal elements.

    Once the registration closed, any illegal registered for citizenship has all the rights of a similar person who came in normally and is in the citizenship process.
    Any who has failed to register does not have those rights, and is subject to arrest and deportation on an expedited basis, as well as losing any future right to apply for citizenship.

    Total deportation is not practical, regardless of support of opposition to it. A plan such as this would be able to resolve most of the issues that either side has about the problem, and seems feasible and reasonable to put in place.

    Bitching doesn't solve problems. Reasonable solutions do.
     
  3. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's also logical, wise, legally correct and prudent, and helps protect the public from violent crime. Sounds reasonable to me....
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  4. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    leftists are defending the Kochs, who, along with Never-Trumpers (who they also love), are attempting to keep wages depressed.
     
  5. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    They would never call him a Dreamer because they want to hide the fact that some Dreamers are criminals
     
  6. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Guess what? There's no way to do that and you seem to understand that. Your suggestions are generally reasonable (with some tweaks) but totally unacceptable to the GOP. It'll never happen. You're suggesting comprehensive immigration reform and the Republican House has shot that down numerous times as had Trump

    I'm just...crushed
     
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Trump toadies refuse to confront the unAmerican indecencies being perpetrated by their "Glorious Leader!"

    If conservatives believe in family values, why do so many accept Trump-Sessions immigration policies that tear families apart? The hypocrites have the upper hand for now.

    Evil is afoot in America. Along our southern border, to deter illegal immigration, children — including infants — are being wrenched from their parents. Few things are crueler, but it is the declared policy of the U.S. government, undertaken in all our names.

    If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child will be separated from you as required by law," says Attorney General Jeff Sessions. “We don’t want to separate families, but we don't want families to come to the border illegally. This is just the way the world works.”

    White House chief of staff John Kelly concurs. But he also assures us that the children removed from their parents will “be taken care of — put into foster care or whatever.”

    “Or whatever.” Already, the Department of Health and Human Services has acknowledged losing track of 1,500 children entrusted to the bureaucracy’s less than tender ministrations. The administration is now looking at housing detained children on military bases as it prepares for a far higher volume of separations.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...-donald-trump-jeff-sessions-column/620442002/

    [​IMG]
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  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And apparently, too small to address a plan seriously proposed. I'm not surprised, it is what I expected. Just thought I'd try.
    If it's not something so outrageous that it will positively be killed by one side or the other, it apparently is useless in your opinion.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Correct. I wouldn't accept any type of amnesty for those 11 (or however many) million. They need to go home.
     
  10. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    HOGWASH- typical you.
    You can't distinguish between accepting honest applicants for immigration and rejecting deporting criminals.
    Haters only destroy themselves; rational people only look and them and see a waste pile.
     
  11. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    "I would have wanted to rip this guy's heart out" - talking about Dylann Roof.

    Pretty clear that Trump hates all criminals. Even white ones.

    Yet another progressive fail.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  12. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    I called that one
     
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  13. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    See above
     
  14. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    You are unable to provide a single instance of your messiah attempting to dehumanize a White criminal as he continually has done in regard to Blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims. Trump, over a span of decades, has continually labeled Black people, Hispanic people, and Muslim people, but never even one White American, no matter how depraved his actions, an "animal!"
     
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  15. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Your desperate attempt to elude the issue fails miserably.

    If conservatives believe in family values, why do so many accept Trump-Sessions immigration policies that tear families apart?

    Does the US need a comprehensive immigration policy that, rather than dehumanizing people aspiring to safety, a better life, and asylum for their loved ones and themselves, excludes criminals and welcomes the worthy? Of course! Neither Congress nor the president has offered such legislation.

    American values are why the right-wing Koch brothers join decent Americans in supporting and promoting DACA.
     
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  16. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But I have, posted here just yesterday- and nothing the Trump admin or republicans put forward gets anything but instant trashing from the haters.
    Not a minute of consideration because they are terrified of having to admit anything Trump has positives. THAT is crap- crappy character, crappy honesty, crappy politics.

    If you are in a position where you must work together and one side absolutely refuses but blames the others- then you have exactly what exists right now...
    And you are fully supporting the drive for chaos instead of cooperation.

    "Tearing families apart" is a hardly a realistic way to describe illegal aliens, who sneak into the country, give their children the gift of stolen citizenship by being born here, and then being discovered and faced with the deportation that was always around the corner anyway- crying unfair. That's like saying we can't send criminals to jail if they have had kids in the meantime, because they have kids.... but of course those kids of illegals would have no problem going WITH their parents, so the "tear apart" is the result of parents breaking the law, stealing citizenship for their offspring, then whining because the kids don't want to go with them.

    Like most of the left- everything is supposed to be based on sympathy, provided you like it. Wrongdoing are forgiven or should get do-overs.
    But, when you don't like it, the attitude is vicious, abusive and totally biased. That is such a lop-sided mental aberration it belongs in the funny farm.

    The left is willing to sell-out America to deny Trump's accomplishments. It's hard to state the way that is seen by honorable people without having it removed from the forum.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The left wonders why Koch is for protecting cheap labor like most of the Fortune 500 companies.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  18. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps because the left has no idea that labor costs are also product prices elements that control their cost of living, or believe that businesses should be social service agencies that exist for the sole benefit of labor.
     
  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    That "left!" that festers in your hyper-partisan noggin aside, traditional, Christian family values (at least, since the slave market fizzled) do not encompass the State seizing children from loving families and consigning them to "foster care - or whatever" as Day Care Kelly would have it.

    Of course, Day Care's exclusionary standards: "They're overwhelmingly rural people. In the countries they come from, fourth-, fifth-, sixth-grade educations are kind of the norm. They don't speak English — obviously that's a big thing. They don't speak English. They don't integrate well. They don't have skills." - were all violated by his own grandparents.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  20. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't know why you got off on that line at all, it had nothing to do with my post.
    Ask yourself if it is possible for you to respond without insult and abuse. Then ask yourself why you insist that others are abusive and it is so terrible- but only when others do it, or you think they have.
    Then, ask what you might do to scrub that hypocritical attitude out of your mind so you could actually address an issue without demonstrating the conduct you criticize.
    Big job, I know, but has to start somewhere.
     
  21. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    You are upset because I provided documented evidence of Trump, over decades, dehumanizing Blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims as "animals!" but never, not even once, is there an instance of his doing that in the case of a White person, no matter how heinous his behavior. No doubt, this is the sort of thing that generated his endorsement and continuing support by neo-nazi and other white supremacist organizations who hail him as their "Glorious Leader!"

    This is a textbook case of how dehumanizing and racist rhetoric works. The question references a hypothetical MS-13 member. Trump immediately pivots to a vaguer ‘people trying to come into the country’ who we’re ‘taking out.’ The point of that move is precisely to conflate groups: ‘people trying to come in’ —> gang members —> ‘not people, animals.’ Spend five minutes on any racist message board and you’ll find a dozen instances of the trope.”
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  22. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No... because you think you did; you chose to interpret everything in such a way.
    If you had a picture of Trump drinking milk, you would be implying he must have stolen a cow.
    If he walked on water- you would say it proves he can't swim.
    People, except those in the same mindwarp you live in, see exactly what you are doing.
     

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