The Most Dangerous Weapon Ever Rolls Off the Nuclear Assembly Line

I thought small nuclear weapons were developed as an off shoot of the efforts to make nuclear warheads that could be fitted into small missiles. ICBMs and SLBMs. Of course the U.S. Army wanted small warheads that could fit into artillery shells so they wouldn't be dependent on the U.S. Air Force for nuclear fire support.

 

All of the above. And they would be useable if the Prez gave the OK. Think of them as a big “air - fuel” bomb. Also, they could be neutron bombs so as to mainly kill people and spare the blast area high radiation.
They would be handy against Chinese landing craft heading for Taiwan. Imagine landing craft full of dead people wandering all over hell in lazy circles forcing Chinese follow on craft to hit them trying to maneuver.

 

I'm pretty sure the people killed by the radiation pulse from Enhanced Radiation Weapons (so called Neutron bombs) do not die immediately.

 

It depends on how close you are, but don’t make any plans for dinner.
It’s minutes to hours to days.
They go through moderate armor, and landing craft are probably transparent.

 

Nothing new here. I Commanded B Battery, 2d Battalion, 5th Field Artillery in the 1980's. My guns could deliver 2.5kt. 5 kt. 7.5 kt and 15kt rounds. Although those M110 guns are retired now, 155mm Artillery (M106) are still around and can deliver 1.25kt and 2.5kt. NOTHING NEW HERE.

 

Kilotons?

 

Yes.

 

"Tactical nukes" 1.25kt to 15 kt have been around in Army Field Artillery for decades and still are. I Commanded a nuke capable Artillery Batter in Germany myself.

 

Could your guns launch a 15 kiloton shell far enough away that you and your crew wouldn't be endangered when it detonated?

 

Sure. Easy reach to 14-15 miles, safe as can be. As long as you make sure about the wind direction. And you can minimize, practically eliminate fallout with a high altitude burst.

 

I didn’t connect the dots to artillery.
I am reading a Lee Child/ Jack Reacher novel about something similar.

 

I would assume you would be going for high air bursts as your targets would've been Soviet troops advancing in the open wouldn't they?

 

Actually, the best targets are in the rear where they have not dispersed and make a denser target. The detonation would be at a distance from them, exposing them to just enough radiation that days, even weeks later, as they neared the FEBA (Front Edge of the Battle Area) they would get sick. Since a good rule of thumb is that it takes two soldiers to evacuate every casualty, they would become casualties just as the entered the battle area and become a burden to evacuate. The radiation casualty and two others would be removed from the battle.

 

You know the other side is having this exact same discussion. Especially where Taiwan is concerned. These weapons do not seem “too terrible to use” as long as they are outbound.

 

Yes, they do, including an estimated 3,000 to 5,000 ERWs that can be delivered by tube artillery, missile artillery and aircraft.

Those are specifically intended to be used on Russian soil to stop advancing Chinese hordes.

Um, tactical nukes co-existed with theater and strategic nukes.

Placing them on subs is suicide.

When an SBLM is launched, neither the Russians nor the Chinese have any way of knowing the size of the warheads.

The difference between ICBMs and SLBMs is flight-time.

ICBMs have a flight-time of 18 to 26 minutes to target.

SLBMs have a flight-time of 4-12 minutes to target, you know, because the sub is usually parked off-shore just outside territorial waters.

Since the neither the Russians nor Chinese can know whether the warheads are strategic thermo-nuclear devices or low-yield fission devices, and since they only have 4-12 minutes to identify the missile path and possible targets, and to order counter-measures, logic dictates that Russia and China immediately launch a massive full-scale retaliatory strike on the US with everything they've got.

Won't that be fun.

 

Efficiency is not a factor.

Thermo-nuclear (fission-fusion) devices produce less fallout because:

1) They're generally strategic warheads detonated at higher altitudes;
2) A typical 750 kt warhead produces 738 kt from fusion and 12 kt from the fission trigger;
3) Fusion is the process of fusing Hydrogen into Helium;
4) Helium is a Noble gas that is non-radioactive;
5) Helium is lighter than air and immediately rises and cannot "fall out"
6) Fall-out is mostly unfissioned Pu239 from the trigger, because the fission process is nowhere near 100% efficient;
7) The fusion process releases fast-moving neutrons which increases the efficiency of the fission trigger (but still not close to 100%);
The fission of Pu239 will, 93% of the time, produce Zirconium, which is not radioactive, and Xenon, and the particular Xenon isotope produced may or may not be radioactive, but it doesn't matter since Xenon is also a Noble gas that is lighter than air and rises rather than falls out.

Fission devices, and certain fission-fusion devices such as those for theater weapons (Pershing-series, terrain guided cruise missiles and certain gravity bombs, etc) produce fall-out because:

1) They're designed to be surface burst;
2) The neutrons released through fission/fusion are in immediate contact with a variety of atoms on the surface or at surface level;
3) Many ordinary garden-variety atoms like Aluminum and Calcium, etc, readily absorb neutrons;
4) The absorption of a neutron typically -- but not always -- converts the atom into a radioactive isotope, such as the ordinary Aluminum in your window frames and siding on your home which will readily absorb neutrons and instantly become a radioactive isotope of Aluminum which is highly unstable and starts kicking off gammas with massive power;
5) The force of the blast ejects matter --soil, vaporized atoms of building materials, cars, people, unfissioned Pu239, etc -- into the troposphere.

In the troposphere, a nominal-sized particle (~42 microns) falls at a rate of 2,000 feet per hour. Larger particles fall faster.

Assuming the cloud height and/or the ejecta managed to reach 8 miles -- 42,240 feet -- it will immediately start falling at a rate of 2,000 feet per hour, meaning within ~21 hours it's all gone.

That fall-out will be dispersed based on local meteorological conditions.

Wind-speed and direction generally varies about every 2,000 to 5,000 feet. We got meteorological data from DIVARTY or Corps level.

At 40,000 to 42,000 feet, wind may be south at 5 knots, but between 35,000 to 40,000 feet, wind may be easterly at 25 knots, then 33,000 to 35,000 it might be southeasterly at 10 knots, then 31,000 to 33,000 southerly at 5 knots and then 26,000 to 31,000 east at 15 knots and so on.

Yeah, plotting fall-out is real fun.

Be wary of the propaganda artists spewing disinformation.

If you see "Bikini Atoll" in your web-readings, you can rest assured it's propaganda.

If I'm not mistaken, the test shot was Ivy Mike, and that would be another clue you're about to be buried in propaganda and disinformation.

The operand in "Bikini Atoll" is "atoll."

What is an atoll? It is a large ancient coral reef that sits above sea level made almost entirely of Calcium Carbonate.

That test shot was ground burst and Calcium will readily absorb neutrons converting into radioactive isotopes of Calcium (and Carbon etc).

Understand, I am not attempting in any way, shape or form to diminish the pain and suffering of the injuries nearby island peoples endured. They were injured and they did suffer.

I'm simply asking, "Which US city sits on a bed of Calcium Carbonate?"

That is a trick question, because with the possible exception of Florida cities, no US city does.

The propagandists say, "Look what happened at Bikini Atoll! That will happen everywhere!"

That simply is not true, unless the exact or incredibly similar conditions at Bikini Atoll are replicated.

Miami, Florida is of no military value (and has no manufacturing capacity, either), so it would never be a target, but even if it was, no one would be stupid enough to ground-burst a perfectly good strategic nuclear warhead, and even if someone was stupid enough to do that, it wouldn't strip the top layers of soil off to get at the limestone underneath (and limestone is mostly Calcium Carbonate.)

 

Chemical weapons were stored at Kamiyashia Depot. Videos unmistakably US chemical weapons. The weapons in French were probably French-made chemical weapons sold directly to Saddam, or to Syria and then transferred to Saddam. The Slavic writing is most likely Czech and the Asian script wasn't readily identifiable, but assumed to be North Korean.

When the Depot was destroyed -- to bury the secrets of the US and France forever -- a big freaking giant cloud of nerve agent went everywhere.

"VA adherence to the DOD 'no exposures' doctrine, often in the face of compelling clinical evidence to the contrary, could be viewed as Department-wide medical malpractice." -- Honorable Jesse Brown, Secretary of Veteran Affairs

[underlined emphasis mine]

Why don't you mull that over for a while and get back to us.

US military advisors in Iraq green-lighted the use of US chemical weapons sold to Iraq against Iran.

I mentioned on another forum I was offered a chance to be a military advisor in Iraq, but I turned it down because I was already slated to go to Egypt for 6 weeks to train the Egyptian Army (1984). I also mentioned US military advisors helped Iraq use US chemical weapons against the Iranians.

People laughed.

Then, about 2 years later, declassified US government documents said US military advisors were in Iraq and they gave the go ahead to use chemical weapons against Iran.

Imagine that.

 

The "backpack nukes" -- all 226 of them -- were secretly withdrawn from Germany July-September 1986 and during this secret withdrawal, 96 of the 10 kt ERW Lance warheads were secretly brought in from Seneca Army Depot in Romulus, New York. The logic was that Reagan had unilaterally deactivated two Lance missile battalions and to make up for their loss, the ERWs were needed.

By fall 1989, the back-packs had all been disassembled.

While a select number of back-packs were dedicated to Special Forces use -- and no it wasn't a "suicide mission" as the Media claimed-- they were overwhelmingle assigned to demolition platoons in certain engineer companies assigned to divisions.

Their primary function was cratering, to block the advanced of massed armored units, and collapsing, like the stupid Fulda Gap nonsense.

In 1991, Bush unilaterally ordered the withdraw of all battlefield tactical nuclear weapons, and by 1995, they had all been disassembled, so neither the Army nor Marines have any.

So, no, there aren't any more 6"/155mm rounds, nor are there any 8"/203mm rounds, and the 8" you're describing is the spherical implosion device.

No, he didn't, and in any event, a battery commander is not a "field commander."

Are you referring to a Middle East in some alternate universe?

I ask, because at no time ever were the Soviets poised to sweep across the Middle East, but then you probably think the Soviets "invaded" (snicker) Afghanistan.

He did no such thing and neither did Reagan.

It is true that Reagan gave field commanders the authority to use tactical nuclear weapons, but your propaganda sources fail to mention that Reagan did so only during a war-gaming exercise.

Reagan was the first Commander-in-Chief since Eisencoward to actively participate in, and direct as Commander-in-Chief, a war-gaming exercise.

During that war-gaming exercise, but not in reality -- and therein lies the difference -- Reagan did give authority to field commanders to use tactical nuclear weapons, but that was also only after they were heavily into the war-game and Reagan and his branch service chiefs realized the US was losing.

Turkey is considered part of the Middle East.

Nuclear weapons were in Turkey, and also Greece. Greece and Turkey both had the Honest John, plus uranium-based 8"/203mm tactical warheads. The Air Force also had gravity bombs in Turkey (and Greece.)

Or people like me who also had SECRET ATOMAL or TOP SECRET ATOMAL clearances.

Battlefield tactical and theater nuclear weapons were developed before ICBMs.

High-yield strategic thermo-nuclear gravity bombs were also developed before ICBMs. In fact, since you didn't have ICBMs (or SLBMs) the Air Force had aircraft designed specifically for nuclear bomber missions, like the B-58 Hustler and others that came before it, like the B-52, which could also deliver conventional ordinance.

It is true that the Nike-Ajax was originally a conventional surface-to-air missile system, but after it was deployed, at great cost and expense to tax-payers, it was discovered that the radar couldn't distinguish between a single aircraft and a flight or group of aircraft.

The Army tried to retro-fit existing small-yield tactical warheads to it, but it altered the flight characteristics and degraded the performance of the missile system, so the Army had to design and field the Nike-Hercules with a conventional and dedicated 20 kt warhead, also at great cost and expense to tax-payers.

The Army wasn't dependent.

It already had the 8"/203mm tube artillery, plus the Honest John, and it had short range missile artillery, like the Corporal, which was replaced by the Sergeant and then replaced in the 1970s with the Lance.

No, they're perfectly fine.

Then 3 days later, they'd just keel over dead. That's how it works, as bizarre as it sounds.

You would think that being exposed to a massive lethal dose would kill someone instantly, but it doesn't. It takes 3 days, sometimes 5, and the person will feel just fine and function normally without any symptoms.

That's very different than being exposed to smaller lethal does, where you're incapacitated almost immediately or within a day or several days, and suffer for some time, any where from several weeks to several months before dying.

RAP. Rocket-assisted Projectile. The range of an 8"/203mm is farther than a 6"/155mm but the heavy warhead reduces the range and to make up for the reduction, you use a rocket. You mate the warhead to the rocket, stick it in the breech along with a special propellant charge, the charge kicks the whole thing out of the tube, and then the rocket ignites and carries it to the target.

No, they were designed for armor/mechanized. There's no such thing as "high altitude" bursts for those, although you can ground burst or air-burst it like a normal artillery shell, and ground-burst is defined as the fireball touching the ground, which it would even if air-burst.

 

A Battery Commander is not a "Field Commander"? What alternate universe are you living in? They sure are. Combat Arms are Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, Air Defense Artillery, Attack Aviation and Combat Engineers. Commanders of these types of units are definitely "field Commanders", although this is not an official designation.

My West Point roommate was assigned to the Warhead DeT at Incirclik in Turkey after graduation. Yes, we know Turkey is part of the Middle East.

Airbursts can be executed from Artillery so as to prevent the fireball from touching the ground and limiting fallout as a result.

If you weren't in the PRP you never cracked a cookie and decoded a Black Dot message or even a Blue Dot 21. You never kept your hand on the door of the safe, holding it as the second man of the two man team opened it. That takes a member of the PRP.

I never said that Reagan gave permission to USE nukes... "release" is a whole different thing than tactical planning. Carter had us in totally reaction mode. Reagan has us PLAN to get to the border and lob nukes into East Germany. RELEASE is a whole different subject having to do with specific permission to deliver specific nukes for a specific reason... not just planning how to get into position, set up defenses, etc. Apples and oranges.

In decades in the Field Artillery I read about RAP rounds, saw pictures and such, but never saw them outside of the test community. Get current. Read up on ATACMS.



I never mentioned anything about Russia in the Middle East. Where your rant comes from must be a different thread with someone else.



Radiation casualties are classified in three ways: those that die imminently, those that die within days and "latent lethality" that die in about two weeks. The best strategy is to target folks two weeks back from the FEBA so they get sick when they arrive in the battle area and must be evacuated,

Nike Ajax? Wow, Soldiers that used those... used flintlocks too.

 

Especially knowing J/O’s like Biden will be in a posh bunker laughing at Biden trying to open the window some clown drew on the wall.

 

Taiwan has probably too much of great value for the mainland Chinese to use nuclear weapons on. Like their microchip manufacturing industry.

 

I hope US agents blow them up so the Chinese can’t steal the tech. I have heard that even with the tech, they can’t do the designs needed to actually make chips.

 

Can you reference that document please? It sounds like you were lied to. I was in Iraq and there was never any indication of any use of US made chemical weapons by Sadaam. He DID use Soviet made "LIQUEFIED SOMAN". I believe someone has sold you some serious foolishness.

 

We need to get used to the idea of nuclear war. It was be normalized eventually.
The suicide claim is interesting - nuclear armed subs betray their presence when
they fire missiles. This makes them a sitting duck.

 

I doubt it.

But IF it happens again, the result will be so horrific that it will not happen a third time.

It does not take them very long for them to fire all of their missiles.

It is unlikely that a sub will stick around and wait for retaliation after they launch their missiles.