The Nazis were not a left wing liberal progressive party

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Panzerkampfwagen, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,798
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    economically speaking, pretty much all of the western world is "conservative" in comparison to Nazi Germany
     
  2. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    6,637
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right wing conservative = leader centric. There is nothing more leader centric than a dictatorship. Which is why Bush Jr would have preferred one.
     
  3. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    6,637
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Have you ever talked to or heard talk the people who spout the Aryan line? They all are gun toting, minority hating, bible thumping, science denying, complaining conservatives. In their compounds they are taking target practice at pictures of Obama.

    Why is it that every time a group takes conservative ideas to their predictable absurd ends, conservatives then go on and on with ignorant arguments that that group was really a leftist group?

    I can pretty much guarantee that in the future when the US is broken and it becomes abundantly clear that it was the excessive tax cutting and deregulation that led to the downfall, conservatives will be claiming that those were leftist ideas.

    The more I hear conservatives talk the more I realize that conservatives can't take responsibility for anything. Spout their crap, enact stupid policies and when they once again are proven that reality doesn't match their rhetoric or world view, well it must be someone else's fault.
     
  4. Windigo

    Windigo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    15,026
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The neo-nazis can quoye Strasser verbatim. They fall into the socialism for me not for the camp which is common to most all syndicalists. As Bakunin was a racist and antisemite zo are most branches of syndicalism including fascism. Socialism actually quite opposed to the notion of socialism for all. Only advanced cultures should become socialist according to the major 19th century socialist philosophers. The idea of international socialism for all is very much an invention of Lenin and Mao as a way to justify their cultures jumping the "natural" progression towards socialism. Those in yhe Bakunin school do not believe that alk races and cultures are deserving of socialism and see the internationalism introduced by Lenin as poison that damaged socialism.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually from a governmental aspect we have pretty much aped Mussolini at the very least. We currently operate a system in which the Facade of private ownerdhip continues to exist but the reality is that everyday in every way the 'owners freedom of operation is more and more circumscribed by government policy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry that as Obama that said that.
     
  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why is it leftist dilettantes assume that everyone who would make use of government for different ends than themselves has to be a conservative? The only real difference between hitler and stalin was that Hitler believed Mr. Businessman, provided he wasn't Jewish was more useful as a government lap dog than as fertilizer.
     
  7. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,798
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well.. I do see your point in that our government has become very industrialized over the years.. our policies on military are treated like a jobs program, our policies on our prisons are treated like a jobs program, and even our healthcare now is treated like a jobs program. However, we haven't reached the same degree of state/economy that Italy and Germany were near the beginning of WWII. Germany had some of their largest industries nationalized, and it was the state that determined what would be manufactured, what wages would be, and what work hours would be. Farmers had to grow what the state told them to grow, and they told them what they were going to charge for their goods. Unions were eliminated and replaced with a single state run union

    but the biggest difference of all is that Germany and Italy were an autarky.. in that their trading with other countries were VERY limited.

    While our government and economy share some characteristics with their government and economy, their policies were to a much more extreme degree than ours.
     
  8. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    11,570
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Germany traded with other countries. They invaded them and then traded with them at very fair rates for Germany.
     
  9. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,798
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's not trade, that's conquest
     
  10. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    11,570
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Of course it's trade. They bought things at fair for Germany prices from the conquered territories.
     
  11. munter

    munter New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The West supported Hitler at first because they were so afraid of Stalin and his left wing ideas.

    Thus, the Western powers must share some of the blame here.
     
  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Germany now has a similar advantage under the EU without the need for a huge army. The downside is that Greece is increasingly a German client state.
     
  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Um Stalin and Hitler were Allies until the Spanish Civil war and in fact much of Germany's arms build up in the early thirties could not have been accomplished without Stalin's collusion then after the Spanish civil War they were tacit allies again and remained so until the Launch of Operation Barbarossa in 1941.
     
  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We already have minimum wage laws The Dems are already seeking an effective maximum wage law through the means of taxation. And then they have the cast Iron gaul to wonder why more and more investment is shifting overseas. Every year we add another 100k or so rules and regulations to what is already regulatory over kill. Then there is that five million word tax code that is far more about behavior modification than raising revenue, and while we may not be fascist in name the reality isn't that far from it and it gets closer every day.
     
  15. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    11,570
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They weren't actually Allies. Hitler was just buying time. He always planned to invade the USSR.
     
  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Based on what it says in Mein Kampf that is certainly true. But it doesn't change a thing I said or even really correct it.
     
  17. freemarket

    freemarket New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,310
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes and the modern day Nazis are also neo-cons.

    NAZI CELEBRATIONS IN KHARKOV: DEMONSTRATORS BROUGHT IN FROM OTHER CITIES, TORCH MARCH AND XENOPHOBIC SLOGANS
    By admin Dennis

    14th October night in Kharkov was marked by the celebration of so-called “UPA day”, which is now an official holiday according to the recent illegitimate decree issued by Poroshenko. The march was announced beforehand as the “March of Azov battalion veterans”, and many political experts believed that it would turn into another pogrom session – probably with more casualties, blood and destruction, because both the junta government and maidan supporters still regard Kharkov as an “unreliable” and “separatist” city, and this is the only way to “pacify” the city.

    However, unexpected change of situation in Kiev, where the army soldiers and national guards went out to protest near Presidential Administration building to demand rotation and demobilization, probably drew the main forces of junta to the country capital to make sure they have sufficient resources there to suppress any unexpected moves by the protesters. So the march in Kharkov gathered around 3000 people, who were mostly represented by the combat battalion members, students and activists brought in from other regions and a minority of local football “ultras” and maidan activists.

    The march went on according to the usual scenario: torches, usual “put the Russians on knives” chants and other nationalistic slogans. The participants carried numerous flags and banners: Ukrainian national flags, the well-known red-and-black right sector flags, and Azov battalion banners with “schwarze Sonne” and mirrored Das Reich division emblem.

    The crowd stayed at Svobody square for a bit more than an hour listening to the speeches of the meeting participans. At some moment the whole crowd fell down on to their knees – probably showing their respect to the junta mercenaries, who died in Donbass.

    As the meeting was coming to an end, a group of about two hundred protesters separated from the main crowd and moved up Lenin avenue beating their drums and shouting their nationalistic chants. Their destination was the nearby National hotel, which belongs to the mayor of Kharkov, and where he currently resides.

    This group was obviously a part of the plan by Mr. Avakov (Minister of Interior), who has for long been in conflict with Kharkov mayor Kernes, and who is now actively using his minister’s position to revenge the past. This small crowd stood in front of the hotel’s main entrance shouting openly abusive chants about the elected Kharkov mayor, which main message was that Gepa (Kharkov mayor’s nickname) had to resign. After the crowd had blown up a smoke cracker the meeting ended, and the protesters headed to the closest metro station.

    Drawing the line under the last night’s events, one can confidently say that such manifestations hardly add respect or loyalty to the junta from Kharkov citizens. Despite overwhelming and aggressive propaganda through all Ukrainian media and generously financed election campaign with hundreds and hundreds of election tents installed all around the city, Kharkov feels quite passive about the upcoming election farce, and it would not be wrong to say that about 60% of the city residents still do not support the junta in Kiev.

    Opposition to junta has recently been reinforced by numerous refugees from the adjacent Donbass region. Very few of the warfare zone escapees feel positive about Kiev government, as besides the atrocities they had to witness in their homeland, even in the peaceful areas they are often treated as second-class citizens and there are numerous reports about discrimination of Donbass residents, who try to apply for a job or rent housing. These people are not getting any official status or any aid from their government, so the rejection of Kiev is only growing among them.

    It is important to understand, that when we speak about rejection of junta, we should not immediately classify these people as “separatists” or “pro-Russia”, most of those, who do not support Kiev government are not for joining Russia or separating from Ukraine. These are people, who are against the collapse of their country, against illegal and absolutely incompetent government and the coming severe decline in economy, which is already resulting in growing unemployment, growing prices and tariffs, shrinking income, quickly increasing crime rates and the prospect of no gas and electricity in winter. With all these problems piling up on the Ukrainian gloom reality it is getting harder and harder to cheat people with propaganda lies and pseudo-patriotic rhetoric.
    (8 photos)
    https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine
     
  18. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Nazis were big on eugenics - a darling of progressives.
     
  19. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    17,158
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It's been a decade since I last heard someone mention maximum wage. I think it was on one of Bill Maher's shows. Who are you talking about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Progressives, not liberals.

    Prohibiton is another example. Progressive, not liberal.
     
  20. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,798
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you're talking about areas that they were already in control of through conquest

    do you know what autarky means?
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    47,233
    Likes Received:
    12,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please note I said through taxation. And Liberal is what progressives started calling themselves after the eugenics fiasco. It was the ultimate false flag and one to which I dearly wish Conservatives would stop giving credence.
     
  22. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    13,463
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Always? My undergrad is in history and I'm not aware of that. I knew he planned on it even while they had a non aggression pact, but do you have a source with solid evidence as to the earliest point he planned on it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Unfortunately the term has recently been co-opted and so so many liberals treat the terms like they're the same, but they prefer progressive because it sounds better
     
  23. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    11,570
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Hitler" by Ian Kershaw. Hitler had been talking about invading the Soviet Union since the 1920s. The whole invade the countries to the East, kill the majority of the population living there, resettle millions of Germans onto huge farms and use the surviving native population as slave labour. Lebensraum.
     
  24. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    13,463
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    online links are preferable. Just kind of a common courtesy type of thing.

    Yeah the earliest I'm familiar with him talking about it was in Mein Kampf, which was 1925, right? But talking about isn't exactly planning. Lincoln talked about shipping the blacks back to Africa. I mean sheesh, we can just take Obama and healthcare to show that what people talk about isn't what they actually plan.

    You didn't say that, "Hitler talked about it all along", you said that Hitler planned it all along. The difference isn't just quibbling.
     
  25. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    11,570
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry that I actually read good sources by respected historians. I'll try and find a (*)(*)(*)(*)ty online blog written by some conspiracy nut. :p
     

Share This Page