The newest political party on the ballot in three states has Democrats terrified

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Lil Mike, Mar 12, 2023.

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  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Naaah. I'm not buying it,

    The newest political party on the ballot in three states has Democrats terrified

    A political party has won ballot access in three states, aiming to offer voters a viable third-party option for president in 2024, and Democrats are worried the group will act as a "spoiler" to hand the presidency to Republicans.

    No Labels, a group that claims to want to give voters a non-extreme presidential option next year, has gained enough support to appear on 2024 presidential election ballots in Colorado, Arizona and Oregon. Criticism of the group varies between those calling it a blatant effort to hurt President Biden's re-election chances to those calling it outright grift.

    "Rather than producing a third-party ticket that would defy the overwhelming odds and win, No Labels is on track to field a spoiler who would re-elect Trump or a Trump-like Republican," think tank Third Way said in a memo this week.

    First, No Labels is a grift, but that's not exactly a new feature of political organizations. I just think the entire focus of this article is totally opposite of what's claimed. No Labels was meant to attract Republicans, particularly the Kasich like squish version. Not Democrats. Somebody sold this writer a bill of goods.
     
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  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, they pass my first test, which is that any political party that wants to compete on the Federal level has to establish itself in multiple states as the same party.

    Many Democrats are Democrats in name only and are plenty conservative on many issues. Thus the fear that they'll draw away the Democratic voters. For that matter, they may suction off the Republicans in name only who would have voted for Democrats should Trump become the Republican nominee.
     
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  3. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Those "squishy" Republicans, a.k.a. RINOs, are exactly the voters, who Joe Biden would hope to attract, and who would be the least likely, on the center Right, to vote for Trump. Whether for the Presidential candidate of the Dems or for the Repubs, the votes of Independents, from the center, are crucial. So the article writer, who you think missed the boat, could look back, to see you laughing, on the dock.

    Note that two of the three states, are Purple ones; and there is every reason to expect that it would be another, very close contest, in Arizona.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
  4. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like the idea of what they're trying to do.
     
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  5. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Any party that wants to advance moderates over the growing extremist segments of each party is a good thing in my book. Would love to see all the MAGA dolts, Fake Patriot Caucus brats, and the progressive whiners all out on their asses.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
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  6. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’m sick and tired of our two-party monopoly. I’m all for more viable political parties as I personally view both major parties as being extreme. Which leaves most Americans somewhere in the middle without proper representation. Only the extreme left and the extreme right get represented. The only reason the democrats would fear this new party is they know themselves they have went too far left. A new party somewhere in-between the GOP and the democrats could attract a lot of swing voters who tend to vote for the party they least want to lose, not win, but least want to lose. The lesser of two evils concept at the time or each election.


    There’s a reason that a party at the presidential level hasn’t been able to elect back to back different candidates with one lone exception since FDR was followed by Truman. That was the Reagan to G.H.W. Bush who quickly lost to Bill Clinton. Even recently we have elected a congress one election and then threw them out an election or two or three later. 2006 we elected Democrats, 2010 we went with Republicans, 2018 back to Democrats, 2022 a return to republican control of the house. The problem is our two major parties only govern for their base which means they aren’t governing for close to 70% of America. The problem with third parties is many, one is they’re not properly finance, in 2020 Biden raised and spent 1.6 billion, Trump 1.1 billion, in third place, poor Libertarian Jo Jorgensen who raised and spent a bit less that 3 million dollars. $2,930,266 to be exact.


    https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race


    No third party can ever become viable being out spent 2.7 billion to 3 million. Then there’s organization to consider. Ballot access. Republicans and democrats have automatic ballot access while every other political party and independents must jump through a ton of hoops just to get on the ballot. The two major parties do everything possible to keep any third party, independents off the ballot. There’re many more reasons. Another big one is Republicans and democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there’s one thing both major parties agree on, it’s no viable third party will ever rise. We’re the only modern democracy that limits our electoral choices to 2 parties. While I welcome all third parties to the show, the monopoly will continue.
     
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  7. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    As a maga voter...a person who respected and agreed with most of Trump's policies ....I need help on understanding your point of view on what policies Trump advocated for that were in the 'extreme' category.
     
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  8. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If their goal is to offer a non-extreme presidential option, then I would think it should have Trump and DeSantis terrified, not Biden (who I don't think will run).

    Even some Republicans are still conservative, so a 3rd party might sound like a home for those who want to promote conservative values.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
  9. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I read it last week, and it seems to be aimed at the kind of folks who aren't that conservative, and looks like the intent is to cyphon off those voters to keep Dems in power. Way too transparent..
     
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  10. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All this does is create a president that was not elected by a national consensus rather than by which minority party can siphon off the most votes. IOW a 40% winner with a 39% runner up.
    It is my belief that the Republicans have finally woken up to the advantages of election rigging.
    You think we are bleep upped now… :roll:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
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  11. InWalkedBud

    InWalkedBud Well-Known Member

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    Color me skeptical. It'll boil down to money & how much exposure they can buy. OR & CO are reliably blue. AZ is blueish-purple. The Dems are calling the shots in AZ; they'll spend as much as they can to keep it that way, if not make it even bluer.

    I can recall only 2 presidential spoilers in my lifetime. The GOP plausibly argues that Ross Perot siphoned off enough from Poppy Bush to give us Clinton. Dems credibly assert Ralph Nader nuked Gore to give us W. I don't see anyone like that on the horizon, but your mileage may vary.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
  12. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Withdrawing from WHO for one. Pissing off our European allies is another. Environmental de-regulation, tax cuts for rich companies that never expire while tax cuts for us lowly serfs do, and the idea that America First is going to accomplish anything other than isolating us and letting our enemies fill the vacuum we left, to name a few more. And that's not even taking into account the general tone and arrogance that comes with Trump and his MAGA movement.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So in other words, you agree with me that Democrats are not "terrified" and that this can actually help Democrats.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    No this party doesn't threaten Democrats, who will swallow just about anything; particularly since they are likely running "good ole middle class Joe" again. You know him, the moderate?

    But Republicans have shown they will bolt (1992) if the get a better independent or third party offer. So you still end up with a two party duopoly, even with multiple parties competing.
     
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  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    a third party will only take votes from either the right or the left... which means the other party wins
     
  16. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is fine if it is the democrats losing.
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    of course each party says that about the other....be great if Trump runs as a independent
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
  18. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Rightly so until we have ranked choice voting (and we should). Without it, they mostly spoil the major party they are more similar to, which is undemocratic. Campaign finance is indeed another issue with our system though.
     
  19. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Jessie Ventura wants to run for president — with Howard Stern ! animated-smileys-sick-024.gif.pagespeed.ce.9uftkdsBng.gif
    Don't be surprised if he gets on the ballot ...
    download.jpeg
     
  20. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, that is not what I had said, at all. I had pointed to your claim, that this new party intended to field a very moderate Republican type (a "squish" was the term you'd used), and pointed out that, in a race that included Trump, these are precisely the "never-Trumper," type of Republicans who would, in a two person race, reject Trump, and hold their nose to vote for Biden. Same thing with all the centrist Independents, to whom this squish type, might appeal. So, in a three person race, this new party takes more from the pool of likely Biden voters, not from Trump supporters. Clearly, this does not "help Democrats," but could only hurt them. In a very close state, like Arizona (or, if they also get on the ballot in Georgia, Nevada, et al), even a small number of voters going for a third party, instead of for Biden, could flip the result (in Trump's favor). This is just the point of your linked article, isn't it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    As I stated, I disagreed with the point of the article. No Labels is designed to hurt Republicans, not Democrats. No Democrat is going to choose No Labels over Biden.
     
  22. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

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    I think that the 3rd party votes cost Hillary in 2016

    Lack of them in 2020 helped Biden
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
  23. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    IRRELEVANT. All Democrats, voting for Biden-- or all Republicans, voting for Trump, for that matter-- will not suffice, to elect a person, as President (but you know this)-- which makes your entire thread, nothing but a straw man. It is the Independent voters, who are more numerous than either Dems or Repubs, who are the those, upon whom, victory hinges. I will say for the third time, a moderate "No Labels," candidate, even if he is a Republican, is meant to attract votes from either major Party, and is going to draw more votes that would have otherwise gone to Biden, than would have gone to Trump. These voters' Party affiliation, is irrelevant (but it is the total of that, upon which your argument hangs).

    Your assumption, that "No Labels is designed to hurt Democrats," is nothing but your own analysis, and it is quite obviously mistaken.
     
  24. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Regarding supporting World Health Organization--support for that...corrupt and bias ..organization breaks along party lines (according to Pew). So that seems to be a more of a difference of opinion between Republicans and Democrats. So are you saying that republican main party line is extreme?

    Regarding passing off European allies you will have to be specific. In the years I've followed politics ...Europe has never warmed up to Republican presidents. So I imagine Trump putting America first might rub them raw. Putting America workers and wellbeing is "extreme"? To you perhaps because you align with Democrat values now.. Republicans tend to prioritize America now.....Democrats used to. Manchin is the relic of that time far far away.

    You haven't mentioned anything "extreme". Just things that the normal Republican joe considers important.
     
  25. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well I can't prove my analysis is correct until after the 2024 elections, but I've seen the No Labels folks doing the cable news rounds for years and I know who they are and what they're for. So mark this post and let me have it after the elections...or not.
     

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