The Not so Subtle Moral Decay of the US Military

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Jazz, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    It was not a free country by any means. The South lost the war because of the corruption in its national government and military.
     
  2. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and I am the little sister of three big brothers... AND I was there!
    Buchanan is pretty much on the right track.
     
  3. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    So because your family fought for Hitler and you were a small child who thought he was a nice man you suddenly become an expert on all aspects of WW2 & the holocaust? Don't think so. It does, however, help to explain your attitudes towards Jews, Americans, Russians & all the other more civilised peoples & nations of the world.

    If you want to believe the work of liars, bigots, anti-semites and political hacks because you have a desperate need to believe Nazi Germany wasn't an evil, mass murdering totalitarian state then that is on you. The rest of us will just stick with historical facts rather than the fantasies of Nazi apologists.
     
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  4. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Suit yourself.
     
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Am I German? No, and not all Germans were Nazis, not even the majority. And many American-Germans fought the Germans very well in the war. But some guilt is still there. Read "Hitler's Willing Executioners" to get an idea of what I mean

    And some guilt is on all of us Americans for Trump. Not the majority of us either but some. I only hope he's gone in 2020 and the guilt won't have to be much greater
     
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  6. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I have been disillusioned by some of our wars, but you go too far in condemning your own country. Afghanistan supported and protected an organization that directly attacked us. We had every right to invade. The first Iraq war was sanctioned by the UN, the 2nd, I had issues with. We didn't invade Vietnam, we went there as allies of South Vietnam.
     
  7. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, one of my favorite subjects, especially ancient history. Reading primary sources, do you see a lot of bias in the books written about those sources?
     
  8. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Most proper historians try their best to represent the material accurately, though what constitutes an accurate interpretation is always open to debate. The biggest problems don't tend to arise from historians using primary sources, but commentators & writers who selectively use secondary sources to push an agenda. That isn't to say all historians don't have their biases & perspectives, but that most of them are professional enough to at least back up what they claim with decent source material and tell you how they came to their conclusions.

    Whenever I see someone issue blanket dismissals of historical or academic work because they have decided it is 'biased' it is usually safe to assume the greater bias lays with the person doing the dismissing.
     
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  9. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What has Trump done that is worse or equal to what Bush did? He hasn't started a new war yet, except perhaps pestered the Venezuelans. He is even talking to and getting along with Kim from N. Korea. Would you have preferred Hillary?
    There is still talk about impeaching Trump. It is silly, I think.

    The author of "Hitler's Willing Executioners" is a Daniel Goldhagen, a Jew. He is not a scholar of Benjamin Freedman, I'm afraid. Therefore, I pass.
     
  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I'
    I'm talking to other readers. I know you won't dare read anything that might upset your view of yourself as a member of the "Master Race", that probably being the only thing you have. Talking to Holocaust Deniers and their minions is as useless as arguing with Flat Earthers, except Flat Earthers are usually not malignant and toxic people as a part of their beliefs
     
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  11. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Agreed
    no

    The war was lost when the soviets and chinese continued supplying the north while liberal democrsts in congress cut off support for the south
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Al Qaeda? Many of them moved to Yemen in 1998.
     
  13. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    And many stayed in afghanistan

    Including bin laden
     
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Nope.. He went to Sudan and then Yemen and then Pakistan. Lots and lots of AQ moved to Yemen 2000-2006.
     
  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    And afghanistan where he was when the war started
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I thought he was in Sudan for awhile after his Saudi citizenship was revoked in 1994.
     
  17. NMNeil

    NMNeil Well-Known Member

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  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not condemning my own country sir, I am condemning its government.

    I'm with Mark Twain on the definition of patriotism: "Patriotism means supporting your country all of the time, but its government only when it deserves it."

    The country is one thing, its government is a separate and different thing. The sooner a person understands that distinction, the better off he will be.

    Invading another country is called "military aggression" and is illegal under international law.

    Are you saying you support military aggression?

    We didn't invade Vietnam? That is pure bullshit, perhaps semantics by you. We invaded, we defoliated, we bombed and we killed there. I was there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  19. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Massacre of Bear River

    Massacre at Sand Creek

    Massacre at the Washita
     
  20. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  21. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for your compliments!
    Being German-born is not a sin in Canada yet!
    The way you carry your nose I get the impression you are a representative of some unknown "Master Race"!
    You are in dire need of education! Start here:
    https://www.unz.com/article/why-germany-invaded-poland/
     
  22. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    We would hardly be human if we were not biased. One of the greatest challenges in academia even scientific academia is to try and filter out your own bias from research. You probably never filter it out completely but the utmost effort must be made to try for academic integrity.

    A good example for me is the works of Winston Churchill on WWII. My father had it in his library and considered those volumes the definitive work on the war and I did too. I think I read all the volumes at least 3 times by the time I left high school and considered them pretty much the ultimate truth of what had happened during that era.

    But then as I got older I began to understand Churchill's bias as a staunch defender of colonialism whose primary goal was protecting what remained of the British Empire and opposing socialism in all it's forms. As I began to understand Churchill's long history in the Admiralty and controversies like the disaster at Gallipoli I began to question all my own understanding of history and realized that all of it as written is pretty much subjective and given to the bias of the observer and writer.

    Even the most beloved of leaders is human and subject to the same frailties of opinion and bias as any of us.

    https://www.history.com/news/winston-churchills-world-war-disaster

    Bottom line....question everything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I am. I am a proud representative of HUMANITY. You should try to join us once you drop all the Nazi apologies
     
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  24. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The war was probably unwinnable from the moment the US lied about the Gulf of Tonkin and began escalating without a clear strategy for winning or the moral authority to use all it's capacity to win.

    The American public was largely against the war and no amount of lies or rationalization could change that.
     
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  25. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so sure. There is a long theme to your history from the Philippines to Hawaii and from the post-war years onward. This history is largely hidden from most Americans by all kinds of patriotic propaganda and the complicity of the mainstream media which almost never tells you the full story or gives any historical context to events such as the Spanish American war or even the bloody history of American involvement propping up regimes like Batista's in Cuba before the revolution or what complicity with Batista meant for the Cuban people.

    These things are never discussed in the corporate media.
     

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