The Opportunity (Evolution/Creation).

Discussion in 'Science' started by tecoyah, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    5,797
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In this thread I wish to provide the platform for anyone who so desires to provide the details (Finally) as to their understanding and belief of a "Creation" event versus the documented and well established concept and data provided for the theory of Evolution and the likely if yet unproven possibility of Abiogenesis. Hopefully we can avoid mythical arguments and the terribly unlikely or impossible and focus on things that can be proven as real to at least a minimal extent without relying on opinion or personal experience as these cannot be taken as serious data by the population at large.
    That said people...Have at it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    5,797
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Apparently (as expected) no one has any verifiable and non opinionated data to provide to show creation as a viable alternative to evolution or abiogenesis. Interesting in that there are many threads created to do so which do not ask for acceptable (reality based) information....I must take this silence as an admission of abject failure of hypothesis.
     
  3. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The problem with trying to refute creationism through logic is that it's very difficult to reason someone out of an opinion that didn't require reason to get into in the first place.

    Depending on how circular the reasoning that got a person into believing creationism, and young Earth creationism in particular, it may be impossible to construct an argument against it.

    If your starting point is that the Earth is 6,000 years old and it was created by an omnipotent supreme being then any evidence which seems to counter that view can simply be dismissed as God testing you and as God is mysterious then His motives and methods should not be questioned so:
    • Radioactive dating evidence that things are far older than 6,000 years - God has put that there to test you
    • Written evidence from China from the time the flood was supposed to have inundated the whole world - a trial of faith
    • DNA analysis showing an ancient common ancestor - Satan working to tempt you to the dark side
    With someone like that, arguing is like trying to punch fog....
     
    Margot2 likes this.
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course there are large numbers of these "fixes" that would have had to be created for such a purpose.

    One I'd note is that a supernatural entity would have had to create a whole range of particles and electromagnetic radiation coming at us in precisely the proper arrangement to make us think there are distant stars!
     
    Margot2 likes this.
  5. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Evolution doesn't explain the creation of life.

    It only explains what happened after creation.

    Since science shows that its impossible for something to be created from nothing then we have to assume that there was another factor.

    Science itself has proven the existence of a creator.

    To put this more simply for you, suppose you have a glass jar and you set it on the table. How long would you have to look at that jar before materials form within it and life magically pops into existence?

    The answer is a infinity because it would never happen.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    lol, no. There doesn't have to be "something from nothing" to have life begin.

    Well, that would be an indication that the conditions and material inside the jar weren't successful at starting life. It wouldn't show anything else.
     
  7. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Explain to me how the Big Bang randomly appeared from nothing.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ok, here's the deal:

    When science doesn't know something, science says, "I don't know".

    Religious logic allows someone to say something happened in a certain way even though there is no evidence.

    Science can't do that. If you see that happen, you know it isn't science.

    Figuring out where the big bang came from is a very hard problem, but there has been some progress. But, certainly not enough to form a claim to an answer.
     
    Cosmo likes this.
  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you admit then that since we don't know that God is a possibility?
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are stupendous numbers of things that each of us doesn't know.

    It's evidence of humans being human.
     
    Margot2 and Cosmo like this.
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nice dodge there my friend.
     
    TrackerSam likes this.
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not dodging.

    I'm stating outright that the amount we don't know is not evidence of there being a god.
     
    Margot2 likes this.
  13. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't ask you if there was evidence of God, I asked you that since we don't know what happened if its a possibility.

    Is it?
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I recognize others hold our ignorance as evidence of god.

    But, our ignorance isn't evidence of god.

    It's evidence of human ignorance.
     
    Margot2 and Cosmo like this.
  15. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't say it was evidence, I asked you if its a possibility and you still won't answer that simple question.

    What are you afraid of?
     
  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    5,797
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "GOD" the concept is possibility. Human created myths about it are at a minimum inaccurate descriptions and more likely created societal manipulation tools. All we need to do is ask YOU if one of the ones you do not follow is real.
     
  17. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is a possibility that there is only one God but He appeals to different cultures and people in different ways.

    It may not be what name you call Him but how devoted you are to Him.

    But thank you for doing what Will could not, admit that it is at least possible for Creation to have taken place.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My major concern is that we learn to identify science and incorporate it in our public policy decisions.

    This thread is about science.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,150
    Likes Received:
    3,167
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I will discuss religion with you in the religion section.

    You know that, because it's happened in the past on a number of occasions.
     
  20. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    1,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually, virtual particles can appear out of the vacuum of space (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle). This is the basis of Hawking's Radiation (what Stephen Hawking is famous for). Also, if it's impossible for something to be created from nothing, then that brings us to where did God come from? The standard answer of course is that God has always existed, but in a closed universe scenario, the universe could have always existed and it goes through an infinite loop of expansion, collapse and expansion again.
     

Share This Page