The Pentagon on 9/11 - Part 2 MODERATOR WARNING ISSUED

Discussion in '9/11' started by Bob0627, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not extremely rare, but impossible.

    Dennis Cimino discussed those points many years ago, and he is an expert in Flight Data Recorders and other such things.
     
  2. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,658
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If I’m not mistaken I may have read somewhere that identifying serial numbers have been omitted on some military planes but even this is extremely rare. Of course I could be wrong.
     
  3. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Personal cell phone sure, not a work phone though.
     
  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a good point actually. Personal phones would've been a bad idea because personal calls would've prevented any incoming 9/11 related calls.
     
  5. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think that it works though, because they don't believe that the official story is a government conspiracy. Perhaps 'official story theorists' - those who peddle and defend the official 9/11 story theory. (OST)

    As in a deliberate structural failure?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  6. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Few reasons, ease of communication being one, but the biggest being cost. Bare in mind 2001 was the days of 20c per text and $1.50 per minute to call someone... someone who has been designated a team leader ain't gonna wanna be racking up massive cell phone bills for themselves doing their departments work..
     
  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Military planes and equipment are always the exception. They operate under different rules, and I'm not sure any of them have FDR.

    All the aircraft involved on 911 were supposedly civil aircraft.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    By definition, a conspiracy exists when 2 or more people agree to accomplish an illegal goal.

    Therefore, the official narrative describes an official theory that 19 arabs with box cutters hijacked 4 airplanes. Thus, it is the official theory, the one advanced by the government. It is the Official Conspiracy Theory.

    Yes, others also have theories about conspiracies that may or may not have played out that day. Those are private, personal, unofficial theories about possible conspiracies.

    See the distinction?
     
  9. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So you're saying that the 'official theory' is a government conspiracy?
     
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm saying it is by definition a conspiracy theory, advanced by the government, making it "official".

    Simply put, some group of human conspirators caused the events of the day.

    The only question is just who exactly they were?

    The facts do not support the official narrative. Indeed, they contradict the official narrative/theory. That renders the official narrative/theory invalid.

    Therefore, logic demands that some other group besides arabs with box cutters must have done the dirty deed.

    The official theory cannot be, therefore other parties must have conspired; some other theory would be valid.
     
  11. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,658
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As already explained by Eleuthera, OCT (Official Conspiracy Theory) refers to the official US government story about what happened on 9/11 which is a theory of a terrorist conspiracy perpetrated by 19 Muslims directed by a man in a cave in Afghanistan and the US government had nothing to do with it, they were taken by complete surprise ("a failure of imagination") and totally helpless. This is it (more or less).



    Caused by the instant failure of one or more columns supporting the East Penthouse.
     
    chris155au likes this.
  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,658
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I stand corrected, however some military aircraft do carry FDRs and CVRs.

    Exactly.
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  13. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The video says that the investigation was "set to fail." I'm not sure how.
     
  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Simply put, as some famous person once noted, "if you can get them asking the wrong questions, you don't have to worry about answers".

    Recall that the Bush Administration had determined quickly that no investigation was necessary. They fought any investigation tooth and nail.

    It was the Jersey Girls who finally prevailed through the political system, but as noted, all members of the Commission knew and stated that the Commission itself was set up to fail. It was set up to ask the wrong questions.

    Still, the Commission noted 60+ times that "we found no evidence" to support numerous claims made by the OCT.
     
    chris155au and Bob0627 like this.
  15. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,658
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There were 3 major "investigations", the FBI's PENTBBOM "investigation", the 9/11 Commission and NIST. All 3 were designed to advance the official conspiracy theory which was invented by the Bush administration and peddled to the public from the first day of the event. It was also designed to coverup the truth about what happened on 9/11. The FBI never produced any report from their "investigation" and in fact hid over 80,000 pages of documents from Congress, the 9/11 Commission and of course the public. All that ever came out were tidbits to be accepted strictly on faith and supported by questionable or deceptive "evidence" or completely unsupported. NIST's "investigation" was designed to produce a predetermined hypothesis about the collapse of the 3 towers on 9/11 fully supporting the OCT (again there is an entire thread on this). The 9/11 Commission's failures are also detailed in this thread:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...mission-scam-exposed-in-all-its-glory.495859/

    Here are the highlights:

    1. The Bush administration is directly responsible for the wholesale destruction of 9/11 evidence, in violation of federal and local law, thus hampering/corrupting any investigation.
    2. The Bush administration did not want to investigate 9/11, in fact they (or more specifically Cheney) asked Sen. Tom Daschle not to investigate 9/11 on several occasions.
    3. The Bush administration reluctantly yielded to investigating 9/11 due to pressure from the 9/11 families, specifically the Jersey Girls but wanted the investigation to only focus on intelligence failures.
    4. The Bush administration appointed Henry Kissinger as the chairman of the 9/11 Commission who was subsequently forced to resign due to conflicts of interest.
    5. The Bush administration stocked the 9/11 Commission with cronies, especially Philip Zelikow.
    6. All members of the 9/11 Commission had conflicts of interest and were covering for someone.
    7. The 9/11 Commission cut a deal with the Bush administration essentially allowing them to dictate who on the 9/11 Commission could see what evidence and also limited the evidence the 9/11 Commission had access to.
    8. According to the 9/11 Commission, there are 570 cubic feet of textual records, a large percentage of it classified, presumably inaccessible to the 9/11 Commission itself (see #7).
    9. Sen. Max Cleland resigned as a result of #7, labeling the 9/11 investigation a scam and obstruction.
    10. The 9/11 families or more specifically the Family Steering Committee sent over 400 questions to the 9/11 Commission and the vast majority of the questions were either unanswered or insufficiently answered.
    11. Philip Zelikow created an outline of the 9/11 Commission Report prior to the first meeting of the 9/11 Commission.
    12. Philip Zelikow admitted that most if not all of the 9/11 Commission Report relied on 3rd party relayed torture testimony.
    13. The source of over 25% of the Commission Report's footnotes is 3rd party relayed torture testimony.
    14. The 9/11 Commission were lied to by the CIA who told them they gave them everything they asked for but withheld torture tapes which they never revealed their existence to the 9/11 Commission.
    15. The torture tapes were deliberately destroyed by the CIA despite a federal court order to preserve them.
    16. The Senate Intelligence Committee on Torture report claims that the CIA's torture methods yielded NO USEFUL INTELLIGENCE (see #12 and #13).
    17. Page 146 of the 9/11 Commission Report contains a full disclaimer of Chapters 5 and 7 (see #12, #13 and #16). This is effectively an admission by the 9/11 Commission Report that two key chapters of the 9/11 Commission Report are totally unreliable (and therefore deceptions meant to be promoted as fact).
    18. The FBI lied to the 9/11 Commission (and Congress) when they told them they gave them everything. They were discovered a decade later to be holding over 80,000 pages of documents from their PENTBBOM "investigation" that they never revealed existed.
    19. NORAD and other key Pentagon officials told the 9/11 Commission different stories that were in conflict with each other or outright lies.
    20. The 9/11 Commission agreed to interview Bush and Cheney together unsworn and unrecorded.
    21. There is no evidence that the 9/11 Commission conducted any criminal/scientific/forensic investigation in accordance with universally accepted standards appropriate for such an investigation. Especially within the vast scope required by a major historical event such as 9/11. Much of the contents of the 9/11 Commission Report is unvetted and/or unsupported by legitimate evidence (any evidence obtained via the use of torture is illegitimate/unreliable - see #16).
    22. The 9/11 Commission claimed in their report that "their aim has not been to assign individual blame", thus making a mockery of the "investigation".
    23. Eyewitnesses who were to testify to the 9/11 Commission were coached by Soviet style government "minders" prior to their testimonies, thus tampering with, biasing and corrupting the "investigation".
    24. Many potential crucial eyewitnesses were never interviewed by the 9/11 Commission. Potential whistleblowers were not granted immunity and therefore many did not testify as a result.
    25. Some key eyewitness testimonies were excluded from the 9/11 Commission Report.
    26. The 9/11 Commission failed to investigate key events and issues, such as the destruction of WTC7 (unmentioned) and the financing of 9/11, deeming it of "little practical significance" (in direct contradiction to all criminal investigation standards).
    27. The 9/11 Commission co-chairs admitted they were set up to fail, starved of funds, denied access to the truth, misled by senior officials in the Pentagon and the FAA, did not examine key evidence, claimed the report was incomplete and flawed and that many questions remain unanswered.
    28. Philip Zelikow had complete control over the final edit of the 9/11 Commission Report and was responsible for keeping the classified 28 pages from the 9/11 Commission. Zelikow fired an aide who wanted to bring the 28 pages to the attention of the 9/11 Commission.
    29. The published version of the 9/11 Commission Report in general is similar to the official 9/11 conspiracy theory disseminated as fact by the Bush administration prior to the establishment of the 9/11 Commission.
    30. The 9/11 Commission Report was severely criticized by many, especially the Jersey Girls, who were responsible for pressuring the Bush administration for an investigation. "we knew it was a farce, we wanted their words, their lies down on paper" - Patty Casazza.


    Among other things, the 9/11 Commission co-chairs wrote in their book Without Precedent, that they were "set up to fail". There is additional information on this beginning at 1:56:10:

     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  16. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It's funny these guys don't release the 'set up to fail' line in their gish-gallop of lies they like to post around is actually a quote from 9/11 commission chairman Thomas Kean.

    You'll find the full quote at the 7:40 mark here. It has nothing to do with what nonsense these guys above are spewing.

    "Lee and I write in our book that we think the commission in many ways was set up to fail, because we had not enough money, we didn't have enough time, we'd been appointed by the most partisan people in Washington... we were appointed in the most partisan year the country may have ever had going in a presidential election.... and suddenly we were expected to put together a staff...... we did our mandate... which is tell the story to the best of our ability"

    Conspiracy theorists love to focus on the 'set up to fail' part of this quote while completely forgetting the rest of it. It's a classic misquote dishonesty tactic, because the quote ends with Thomas saying they did the job the best they could.
     
    chris155au likes this.
  17. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,658
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And official conspiracy theorists believe that the full quote somehow vindicates the 9/11 Commission and makes the official 9/11 story true despite the fact that the full quote only supports the point that the 9/11 Commission was set up to fail as ADMITTED TO by the 9/11 co-chairs themselves. That they "told the story to the best of [their] ability" is like saying I tried my best to climb the mountain despite that I was handcuffed behind my back and around my ankles and blindfolded. There's far more to the admission that they were "set up to fail" than the admission that they were set up to fail. These were ALL documented claims made by members of the 9/11 Commission at various times:

    There are at least 29 other facts listed where any one of them make the 9/11 Commission Report a total scam on the public. Furthermore it wasn't just Kean that expressed his concern, at least 6 of the 9/11 commissioners as well as the lead counsel did as well. Sen. Max Cleland publicly announced that it was a SCAM and OBSTRUCTION when he resigned from the 9/11 Commission. In this video he calls it a SCAM and DISGUSTING.



    And to emphasize Kean's admission, the same admission(s) were repeated in several interviews with the co-chairs. See the 9/11 Whistleblowers video at 2:00:00.

    Anyone who can't see that the 9/11 Commission and their report is grossly problematic (to be kind) is either wearing blinders or has major perception issues or has some kind of agenda and is pretending that all the above FACTS have no bearing on anything.
     
    Eleuthera and chris155au like this.
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The idea is that it was set up to fail for a reason! Every conspiracy theorist would agree with everything you have said.
     
  19. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We are all conspiracy theorists. All that separates us is which particular theory we embrace, the official theory or another.
     
  20. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    No Eleuthera, don't try and make yourself feel normal. A conspiracy theorist is by definition someone who invokes a belief in an alternative explanation when a more provable/probable explanation exists. The evidence supporting the official narrative, the evidence you and your online buddies choose to ignore, is overwhelming. Therefore to come up with an alternate narrative against that evidence makes you a conspiracy theorist, not the rest of us.
     
    Adam Fitzgerald likes this.
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But you don't actually KNOW what happened on that day do you?
     
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The idea is that it was set up to fail for a reason! Every conspiracy theorist would agree with everything you have said.
     
  23. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,658
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean every OFFICIAL story conspiracy theorist. There is not one ounce of truth about what he wrote, he's merely trying to defend the indefensible and be an apologist.
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    8,593
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You cannot prove a single element of what you defend CJ, not one. And you are forced to use your own definition of CT to protect your cognitive dissonance, no surprise. The joke is on you.

    CT is very simply a theorist in the field of conspiracy. Is English your second language? That is common on the internet.
     
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    19,493
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What I meant was that you all agree that the "set up to fail" remark was from 9/11 commission chairman Thomas Kean. He implied that you all say that it's not, which is ridiculous, as the fact that it is from the chairman is what makes it so damning!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019

Share This Page