The Pulpit Initiative

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by CanadianEye, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought this might be of interest to some. I think it is a great initiative as it seeks to give back freedom of speech to those on the pulpit, and whether I am atheist or not, freedom of speech is for everyone.

    Six minute vid, info about the hundreds of pastors taking on the IRS, the history of how the stifling of their rights started with LBJ etc.

    http://blog.speakupmovement.org/chu...d-pastor-jim-garlow-on-pulpit-freedom-sunday/
     
  2. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :bump:

    Brazen bump. Preacherss and pastors poking the IRS right in the eye? C'mon.
     
  3. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    In the USA, most churches (aspecially those lead my born US people) are business organizations and half of them are active in politics. Every business in the united states must pay taxes, including political organizations. So why should those churches be an exception? If they can prove that all they do is spread the word of God, then they could go tax exempt, I guess, but they are usually more than that, they are businesses.
     
  4. moisoha

    moisoha New Member

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    How? How are they businesses?
     
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    They provide a service in return for revenue.
     
  6. moisoha

    moisoha New Member

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    Not my church.
     
  7. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    They are corporations... of the 501c3 type.... doubt me ... here is a link that will identify the churches here in florida... just punch in the name of church and see for yourself....

    http://ccfcorp.dos.state.fl.us/corinam.html
     
  8. moisoha

    moisoha New Member

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    Nope. Mine's not on there either.
     
  9. Sooner28

    Sooner28 New Member

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    It just means churches won't get special tax treatment anymore if they engage in political speech... Not stifling free speech at all.
     
  10. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    anyone can speak as freely as possible

    but NONE have a right to lie

    or be wary wary careful................ (each can judge just as freely)



    i like the idea of religion being divided from politics.

    ie.... talk politics, and lose your 501 (non profit designation)


    Just the same; business has no voting right. So corps should not be lobbying politicians.
     
  11. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Well, if your church is not in florida, then that would be easy to understand.Not knowing what state you are in, I cannot say whether your state has a website similar to that here in florida. But if they do, you might want to check your own state. If you are from florida, then I will have to submit that your church is STILL and AS YET a true member of the Body of Christ.
     
  12. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for giving religion more freedom in politics.

    All I ask in return is that they end their tax exemption status.
     
  13. Sooner28

    Sooner28 New Member

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    lol idk about all for it...:p. But yeah this whole outcry over wanting to keep their special tax status while they preach politics is ridiculous.
     
  14. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    Under the First Amendment "free exercise" clause it is doubtful that a tax on the Churches is constitutional, so the threat of pulling tax-exempt status is a paper tiger IMHO.
     
  15. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    I think one thing that keeps getting missed in your argument is that churches are not business. They don't exist to make money. Revenues that come into a church are spent on maintenance and improvements, charities, and salaries. Any money paid as a salary is taxed at normal income tax rates, so there are no "wealthy church tycoons" getting filthy rich by not paying any taxes.
     
  16. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    But you just told on yourself. "salaries" is a commercial terminology and as such, the churches that utilize a salary are a business and are paying employees and those employees are required to pay taxes.

    Before the 501c3 IRS exemption was developed, the churches were already exempt from the tax system, by virtue of the "separation of church and state" clause. The state could not pass a tax on the church because of that built in tax exemption. The pastors were not paid nor were any of the other functioning officials of the church. They were all volunteers and were rewarded with 'donations' even of the 'in kind' donations. Slick, deceitful lawyers infiltrating the church convinced the deacons that by becoming 501c3, the church could be 'legally' recognized as being tax exempt without explaining the details of the 501c3 contract with the state. The deacons were gullible enough to go for the scam and subsequently, the churches that are 501c3 are now in a legally binding contract with the state, which places them in a 'business' status.
     
  17. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the things that interested me, was the seemingly related, or not, story of those people fined for having a bible study in their homes. Was the basis of that, they should be going to a church to have that gathering?

    The Pulpit Initiative has quietly moved along for a few years now, and recently has grown some newsworthy legs so to speak...and very shortly thereafter, financial smack down on the home bible study groups.

    Beyond that, with a 2,000+ lawyer defense league, actually begging for a fight to challenge the status quo of this sketchy and fairly flimsy Johnson decision from so many decades ago, should really heat up in the not so distant future.

    There are some Democrat pastors/preachers who are on board with it. Mr. Wallace, Obamas spiritual advisor, is not one of them. ;-)
     
  18. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Not selling your suggestion short, because there is a good probability that you are correct. Though there is currently probably no law on the books within that state regarding the requiring of a license to preach or teach divine matters, what you are seeing is likely a test case to see how far the state can push that envelope.

    Commerce being defined legally as the consensual exchange of something for a given consideration. Meaning that with the exchange of information on these forums, even if the consideration is merely pleasure, we are engaged in commerce, because the owner of this forum has to pay for services that he/she employees in the operation of this forum. Subsequently, Commerce is activated. Now if those state officials who are fining the people for exchanging divine information at home (even though there is no absolute law regarding that matter), the execution of the fine will serve as an impetus to go further along with the passing of any legislation that will make properly enacted law.

    Within all probability the case is actually surrounding the probable 'parking enforcement' laws/codes/regulations for that particular community; or possibly the violation of a 'occupancy level' violation where there are more people in the house than what the house was designed. Streets where parking takes place; and homes built under the authority of Building permits; are under contract conditions with the state. Violate any of those conditions to which you have consented to abide by, and you can be punished in a penal sum.

    Here is a classic example of someone being fined for activities which he did not know were in violation of a law/statute/code/regulation at the time of the offense. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904060604576570801651620000.html
    Know the law or be penalized.

     
  19. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That article is disturbing, especially the stories about the guy with the bullet, and the insta pass lawmakers barely giving any of it a thought.
     
  20. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    I think it should be illegal for churches to donate their tax free money to political figures....
     
  21. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    And in fact it is.
     
  22. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    My purpose of presenting that article, was to simply show that it is not necessarily Christians that are the motivators that get laws passed. As described in the article, such laws (laws with no good intent for the people) are passed on a routine basis, and has nothing to do with Christianity but rather is simply a means of increasing revenue for the state(s) and the IMF. Some folks, IMHO, need to get educated on what is really happening and why those things are happening.... The truth of why they are happening.
     
  23. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Further information regarding The Pulpit Initiative.

    The Wall of Separation, a site built around the separation of church and state

    http://blog.au.org/2011/09/30/pulpi...ght’s-partisan-scheme-to-politicize-churches/

    had a one Mr. Joseph Conn, among other things, say: "The ADF-sponsored observance has one goal: to pave the way for Religious Right leaders to forge fundamentalist churches into a disciplined voting bloc."

    I think he is absolutely correct, and I believe, tactically it is the proper initiative, given the political climate of American politics.

    Progressives are fueling the fires, in an all out, rage against the machine, inclusive of inciting racial conflict, class conflict, anti-capitalism etc. There is really no debate any longer that that is exactly what they want. Basically, the deconstruction of America, and they do not even hide this intent anymore.

    The alert, who saw this radicalism...this progressive militant vitriolic anger rising, where the TEA Partiers, and they still stand as a very large, and extremely organized voting block. However, as the winding up (via the Progressives) of more and more of the those susceptible to the siren songs of the destruction of America...in answer might be another voice, looking to counter those numbers beyond what the TEA Party did.

    The church, with some of those sweet long retired folks, who sit on their porches, fondly remembering days gone by, oblivious for all intent and purpose, as they simply click on the TV and are fed whatever the purchased media sells, which is nothing like the reality shown daily on the emerging MSM of the internet.

    I like it. Let's wake everyone up. The Progressives are going all out. Let's expand the playing field to match their destructive intents.

    Tomorrow, Oct 2nd, is Pulpit Freedom Sunday. I wish them well.

    http://speakupmovement.org/church/LearnMore/Details/3882
     
  24. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    If you can, in one short sentence. What are you promoting?

     
  25. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My direction is that freedom of speech is important, and, that the exercising of that initiative by the clergy would also be beneficial in fostering...reawakening...a long marginalized voting block of Conservatism.
     

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