The Religion of Atheism

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Alter2Ego, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Member Past Donor

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    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    Atheists consistently attempt to take the higher ground by pointing fingers of accusation at theists and accusing theists of committing all sorts of human rights violations in the name of "cultish religions," as they are fond of putting it. According to atheists, it is the belief in God that has caused people to commit the various atrocities common to mankind. Remove religion, belief in God, and belief in the Bible--the atheists argue--and the world will be a better place. This latter conclusion is mortally flawed for the following reasons:

    1. Atheists have committed human rights violations en masse throughout history. For instance, Joseph Stalin--the atheist--ordered the deaths of between 40 million to 62 million people (20 million of which were everyday Soviet civilians), compared to the 6 million killed by Adolph Hitler the Roman Catholic "Christian."

    In other words, the problem is not the Bible or God. The problem is people, including those in false religions which have failed to teach the masses Biblical truths. An appreciation for Biblical truths and Jehovah's righteous standards of what's right and what's wrong is the only detriment against people committing human rights violations. Blaming God for the crimes of false Christians is an attempt at passing the buck.


    "See! This only I have found, that the true God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans." (Ecclesiastes 7:29)

    "They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!" (Deuteronomy 32:5)


    2. Atheism is itself a religion aka a cult. While atheist will argue that they don't believe in any god, the issue is not merely non-belief in God or gods but in having ANY sort of belief system. The belief system of atheism is centered around the philosophy of "secular-humanism."


    3. Atheism is a religion according to the 1961 Supreme Court ruling in the case of Torcaso v. Watkins and the 2005 Wisconsin Federal Court ruling in the case of Kaufman v. McCaughtry. Since, by definition, all religions are classified as cults, atheism is therefore a cult.
     
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Atheism was considered a religion for the sake of protecting atheists' rights the same as the rights of religious persons. But what is atheism? All atheism denotes is non-belief in gods, i.e. a-theos. Is this a religious position? I suppose that's debatable; the way I see it, and the way other atheists I've heard/read see it, god claims are unproven, and even incongruous with observed reality, and so they can be reasonably rejected. For an analogy, see Russell's Teapot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
     
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  3. montra

    montra New Member

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    Other than that they are OK though.
     
  4. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what you are saying is that atheist have done bad things.

    From everything I have read Christians have too, and Buddhist (though seldom in the name of their religion), and Islamist, and on and on and on.

    It seems to me to be less about religion than it is about the human will to do wrong.

    Get over it.
     
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  5. montra

    montra New Member

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    "Bad" things? Define bad. In fact, I think that people like Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor.
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hitler and Stalin are two examples of mad men and mad ideas. Kind of a shame that so many followers followed their orders, isn't it?
     
  7. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think I need to define "bad". I could call it inhumane or evil, but what is really the difference?

    People like Hitler do not seem to really care about the world accept in the way it can serve their ego.

    I feel pity for their followers.
     
  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    The objection that secular humanists have against religion is not the fact that religious people have committed atrocities (well, it is to some, but that argument is flawed). In fact, when secular humanists point out those actions, it is either to counter the claim that religion makes you moral (secular humanists make no such claim and therefore, the fact that atheists have also committed atrocities is not a counterargument), or to criticise the fact that religion donates power and credibility to people for no reason (Stalin and Mao were atheists - I'll leave Hitler to other threads - but they did not gain any considerable amount of votes because of it, whereas the popes that called for the crusades, the priests that molest children or the presidents who call for war were powerful because they were religious and would not have been powerful had they not been religious).
    The word religion or cult is not well defined. I have no particular problem with calling atheism a cult, cults are not judged by the fact that they are cults, they are judged on their ideas, which means that they don't lose nor gain credibility from you wanting to call them by a word with negative connotations.

    Secular humanism is followed by a great percentage of atheists, but not all. Therefore, I would say that calling atheism a cult would be less correct than calling secular humanism a cult. Atheism or humanist do not require one another, and they are not synonymous, however, they come from a similar mindset, which is why there is such an overlap.
    If I remember correctly, the KvM case states that "atheism is equivalent to a religion for the purposes of the first amendment", which is not the same as saying that it is a religion.

    The wikipage on the TvW case sorts out the other statement.

    That being said, I don't have a particular problem with you calling atheism or secular humanism a religion, I just have a problem with you using faulty logic to back it up.
     
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  9. montra

    montra New Member

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    But every leader it seems has an ego to serve. In fact, the term politician is equivalent to crook in today's culture. But why is that "bad"? I would assume that since it is obviously our nature to act this way it is natural and should be deemed "good".
     
  10. montra

    montra New Member

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    Hitler was trying to racially purify the world. Stalin was trying to economically purify the world. If only they had joined forces it might have worked!! :)
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Religion is differnt from a belief system in the sense that in a religion, there's somesort of god or deity. There's no god in a belief system.
     
  12. montra

    montra New Member

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    I'm not so sure. We all are looking for a "savior". For the atheist, all they have are politicians. That is why I think that most atheists are statists. They are looking for that wise intellectual who can solve all our problems with morals to match their own to boot. Fortunately for us, we have one now in the White House.
     
  13. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't change anything. Athetism, is a belief system, not a religion.
     
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  14. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Atheism by itself is not a belief system - it is the lack of a theistic belief, nothing more. A belief system may coexist with atheism, however, but you have to realise that there are belief systems (at least potentially) that do not involve deities. Isn't humanism a belief system?
     
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  15. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    My favourite hobby is not collecting stamps.

    My favourite sport is not playing golf.
     
  16. My Fing ID

    My Fing ID Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An argument so easily defeated it can be summed up by cartoons

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK, had to fix it. That last frame deserves a translation!

    [​IMG]

    (The security text I had to enter in order to upload this one was just right. It was "i'm blushing")
     
  18. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Whatcha want to bet that will simply be ignored?
     
  19. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    Hitler was a devoted catholic
     
  20. AbsoluteVoluntarist

    AbsoluteVoluntarist New Member

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    No, Hitler was not a "devoted Catholic." He was a lapsed Catholic who didn't have any clear religious position one way or the other. I'm sick of people arguing about whether Hitler was an atheist or a Christian. He didn't seem to really care about religion one way or the other. The Aryan race and the Reich were his concern; he cared about religion only insofar as it helped or hindered the race.
     

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